22-06-2003 05:13									#1
	NEWSFLASH! PEACE vessel sighted off Pi Square! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have received a PM from johndmuller stating that they have made contact with Pi Square, and that they wish to trade techs (they are offering doc. mobility) and a treaty. Should we accept? I vote we should offer them something innocuous like Planetary Networks, sign the treaty, and ask to exchange maps (they will have charted much). What do you think?

Issue 1 is the Treaty,
Issue 2 is the tech trade,
Issue 3 is whether to offer maps for maps or not.

Full PM is here:

quote: Ahoy Prime Function: That Schooner off your coast at Pi Square is the P.E.A.C.E. Military Services vessel Montezuma's Revenge of Tripoli, or PMS-003, in your more intimate referents. The Cuspidore BrownBeard greets you as a Brother-of-thep-Sea and has suggested that the crew refrain from coarse and crude behavior in your line of sight. We have dispatched a bottle to Tripoli requesting "proper" (whatever that means) diplomatic instructions, but meanwhile, in the interests of time, the Cuspidore feels authorized to open negotiations somewhat, so that you may plug in (or whatever it is that you do) to your higher command and initiate the proper routines. The Cuspidore expects to be able to offer "proper" (whatever that means) trade relations to your "people" and expects to be able to offer the tech "Doc: Mobility" for your consideration. We would wish to know what trade goods you might have to offer in exchange for that knowledge. We may also become authorized to discuss a Treaty-Between-Brethren-of-the-Sea, should you be similarly inclined. Coordinated efforts to discover improved xenorum distillation technologies, and the breeding of better brewers yeast are also possible items of mutual interest. So as not to irritate the other factions too much, your prompt evaluation of this matter would be appreciated. Meanwhile, we will of course refrain from coastal raiding, lewd behavior or target practice on that lovely little town of yours. We would, however, wish to allow some of the crew to experience the pleasures of the seamier side of Cyborg life (there are many popular shanties already being sung aboard the Revenge in anticipation of shore leave) should you be able to direct us to the appropriate Quarter of Pi Square. The Cuspidore

You have 2 days. Please post arguments and reasoning, and I will PM JDM back as soon as it looks like we have a majority. Time is of the essense.

	22-06-2003 05:25									#2
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I voted Yea to all, as it is of mutual benefit to both us, and to the detriment of the other factions. Tech trades now could give us a major edge over the PUT. I vote we trade Information Networks, as it is relatively usless on it's own, but can lead to much. If they will not accept, I vote sending Planetary Networks or Centauri Eco if we have to, but not Applied Physics.

What do others think?

	22-06-2003 05:59									#3
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I agree fully. In addition, IN probably won't help them much, as I don't forsee them becoming a research threat (in the near future).

There is also the possibility of us improving our research rate by co-ordinating research and trading. This will give us a big edge over the University... however PEACE may not go for it.

Should we try asking them for Doc: Flexibility? It would be useful, but they'd probably be hesitant to surrender their naval monopoly.

	22-06-2003 06:06									#4
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Hmmm - Planetary Networks - visualize P.E.A.C.E. Probe foils spanning the oceans, infiltrating, downloading techs from The Angels and the PUT ......

You'd want a watertight infoshare and techshare agreement for that I'd think - prolly along the lines of a fifty year pact. Or else Doc Flex in exchange so that you could send out your own Probe Armada

'Course I'm just a neutral observer ...

G.

	22-06-2003 06:15									#5
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Googlie: Much as I enjoy your interjections, and am thankful for the help, I wonder if in saying things like this to every faction, you are somehow changing the course of the game, as you see everything, you may aid factions in ways they should not be, and may even help a faction if they were losing. As someone in all forums, I think it might be better without advice, since you know others movements, maps etc. I think it would make it a better ame personally. Although this is obviously merelyb a humble suggestion from an ever devoted follower

With regards to the tech, I think Doc Mob for IN and then offer Plan Nets for Doc Flex. Might as well go for both

	22-06-2003 06:35									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

or centauri ecology. i'm not sure giving out plannets is a good idea, for those reasons googlie stated, and others.

yes to all BTW (except plannets)

	22-06-2003 06:43									#7
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Well, would you rather have a friend having probes, who can then trade techs stolen from PUT with us, or would you rather they have laser foils, and a step closer to impact foils? The 2nd scares me more to be honest.

	22-06-2003 07:23									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue As someone in all forums, I think it might be better without advice, since you know others movements, maps etc. I think it would make it a better game personally.

Point taken, Drogue. And while I may feel that I'm merely stating the obvious (lest it be overlooked), I accept that it may "influence" events if inferences were to be made (eg as you say, I'm privy to all the factions' discussions and in "stating the obvious", as I call it, I might have implanted the idea that the Peace might be willing to trade a tech 2 for a tech 2)

I'll save my posts in future for the innocuous stuff like base names, etc, unless called upon for a odds calculation or short scenario test or whatever.

G.

	22-06-2003 07:27									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Thank you. I don't mean to curtail your fun, merely to make sure that it is faction against faction. Much of your RPing is great to read, and really livens it up

* Drogue breaks into a chorus of GooglieGod's Prayer

	22-06-2003 17:34									#10
	Got spare money?

Personally, I'd vote for YES to a treaty. Concerning tech trading, if they offer the currently not so valuable Doc:Mob, I would only be willing to offer InfoNets in return. If they would offer Doc:Flex, I'd offer PlaNets in return. Then we both have probe foils, an equal deal. Of course, until we have our next turn in hands, we cannot know what techs the Pirates have. Perhaps they already have InfoNets or PlaNets. Would it be forbidden for Googlie to check and tell us which techs we already have in common with the Pirates? We'd know it anyway next turn and it would make our diplomatic contact easier.

As for map trading, I'd first ask them what is their opinion about the UoP. If they don't like them, I'd suggest a map trade and a pact to rid Chiron of libertarians.

PS: I forgot to Vote "Yeah" on tech sharing.

	22-06-2003 18:20									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Would it be forbidden for Googlie to check and tell us which techs we already have in common with the Pirates? We'd know it anyway next turn and it would make our diplomatic contact easier.

You can check it with the current turn simply by opening the diplo box and offering all tech to the Pirates - it'll only list ones that you have that they dont .... ergo ones not listed that you have are common

(That can be done for any faction except the AI, even although contact has not been made with them - there's no way to block off that info from view in PBEMs)

G.

	22-06-2003 18:25									#12
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Maniac: I don't think they've met the PUT yet. I will PM JDM with our offer of Info Nets for Doc Mobility, and ask if they are willing to trade for Doc Flex and swap maps, as well as agree to the treaty, since we have a majority of those active IIRC. Thank you all for the input.

	22-06-2003 23:10									#13
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Don't forget... although we will both have probe foils, they'll be able to build them, but we won't (seeing as we have no costal bases (anymore)). Maybe we should wait until we have a base that can produce them at a reasonable rate before we trade. It will also increase the probability they'll be willing to part with it for less, as they and we will have better techs by then. Of course, that CP heading to the Manifold Nexus can always be built on the coast.

	23-06-2003 00:45									#14
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i said yes to all

	23-06-2003 00:56									#15
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hmmm after reading everthing...i see i was to late....doesnt matter...

	23-06-2003 02:42									#16
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If we have no coastal bases (isn't Pi Square one?) then them having probe foils will not harm us, and them beign our ally, we can trade for what they steal Will benefit us too.

DBTS: Not too late at all, we have not signed anything. I just wanted to give JDM a preliminary of what we agreed to.

	23-06-2003 02:50									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I have received reply that Inf Nets is fine for Doc Mob, that the treaty is acceptable, but that they do not wish to share maps. I have asked about Doc Flex, for Centauri Eco, but implied that we would be willing to trade other techs if they have that.

	23-06-2003 05:11									#18
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Yes, Pi Square is a costal base. Why had I forgotten that?

Phooey.

Hey... I just realised something.

Edit: Huzzah! My position serves a purpose now!

Last edited by Corellion on 23-06-2003 at 05:43

	24-06-2003 18:15									#19
	Got spare money?

to bad about the map trading....maybe you can ask them about if they found any other faction yet?

	25-06-2003 00:14									#20
	Got spare money?

I could ask, although I doubt they'd tell me. They did say they were badly in need of techs, so I doubt it, as they have nothing else by Doc. Flex. to offer us.

New developments: They are unwilling to trade for Doc. Flex., partly for security, and partly due to not wanting us to trade it. I said would that change if we promised not to trade it, since I think we need it, but I doubt it. However they said they would have either Social Psych or Industrial Base in about 3-4 years, and would we trade that. I think it would be great, as both we need urgently. Ind. Base means we can defend better, and we get nearer to Ind Auto and Ind Eco (crawlers and FM, very important); Soc. Psy. means we get rec commons and neaer to Gene Splicing

	25-06-2003 01:02									#21
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Both those techs are great, though I would only be willing to trade for a level 1 tech. Certainly not for PlaNets.

	25-06-2003 03:26									#22
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Really? Then we have nothing to trade for them I don't think we should care too much about a level 2 for a level 1, Ind Base is more useful than Plan Nets IMHO, and is one we need ASAP. Closer to FM, synthmetal garrison, closer to Ind Auto. Well worth giving probe foils, that take a while to build, to an ally. By then we should have a probe team in Pi Square anyway.

	25-06-2003 03:55									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Are they our allies? Though I would still stick to the principle: if they don't want to grant us probe foils, neither should we to them. And in a few turns we will have biogenetics, so we should have something to trade for IndBase or SocPsych by the time they've researched it.

	25-06-2003 10:25									#24
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I agree with Maniac... a human player with probe foils is too dangerous, even if we don't have many coastal bases. That being said, Biogenetics would be perfect to trade, as it provides some boons for them, but is not entirely critical at this early stage (I doubt they'll have the minerals necessary to beat anyone to the HGP).

	25-06-2003 16:27									#25
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Are you sure, I'd rather give them probes than the HGP, although they probably won't, being sea creatures, so I would agree to trade Biogen. That seems sensible

	01-10-2003 00:01									#26
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Last edited by Googlie on 15-10-2003 at 22:22

	01-10-2003 00:48									#27
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What Doc:Flex situaton? We've already bought it from Roze.

	01-10-2003 04:17									#28
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Last edited by Googlie on 15-10-2003 at 22:21