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Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 17:13
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Turn 115, 270 BC Put an end to popups!

498 gold, +53.
GoW are offering a peace treaty. Any reason why we should not accept? (it's not like we're getting war unweariness out of it, I think, since officially we were the ones to declare war)
I can't see anything else yet because of the diplomacy pop-up.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 17:41
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I have no problem with it.
(signing peace that is)

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 20:20
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So, noone objects?

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
Emperor
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
Mar 2002
time: 05:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 20:26 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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Sounds fine to me. I can't see how it would hurt us ... unless I'm missing something.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 20:47
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Ok, accepting.
We are now at peace with Glory of WAR.
Rejecting Vox's peace offer, since the agreement was not yet officially ratified (what's up with that anyway?).
Starvation at Elipolis.
Income is +57.

With a city on the hill 9998 of Mavdad, ND can effectively block RP's trade route with GoW in event of war and prevent iron trade to GoW from anyone but ourselves. Shall we suggest to them that they do it?
It will make our iron much more valuable, and ND will never know that we're selling GoW iron (if and when we do) because it'll look exactly like a lux deal.

Nothing else this turn but economy.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 20:48
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Still no disorder with 10% lux.

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 21:13
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Who is our ambassador to ND?

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 21:28
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I am.

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 22:11
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I'd rather not tell ND outright... can you slip something into your next communique that would trigger their own recognition of the importance of blocking GoW from RP iron, as well as their opportunity to do so?

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 22:26
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Increase Your PM Length

I'll try, but there's not much time left. GoW will have Chivalry in just two turns from now, according to UnO, and ND will take some time before they can set up the blockade.
I wish they'd respond to my last PM soon. In my reply, I'll include something along the lines of: "(while speaking in the context of trade) ND is very lucky indeed to have started right in the middle of Bob. From your position, you can block all land trade routes between your two neighbours, and the sea trade routes too if you claim some territory around the east coast of Bob, until Astronomy comes.". How is that?

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 23:03
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Remove this text

Should do the trick. Could even trim it down I think.

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 22-06-2003 23:56
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Fine.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 03:55
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Increase the size of your Attachments

I think there's a lot of risk of getting ourselves in trouble if we look like we're trying to stir up trouble among the Bobian civs. I think we're better off laying low and getting ready to take advantage of whatever does happen instead.

By the way, has anyone started trying to line up a luxury trade with Lego?

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 04:42
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I don't think that's so much stirring up trouble, Nathan, as giving ND a very subtle helping hand.

Beyond a hint or two here and there, however, I completely agree with you. We need to sit back, build, and watch the prime-time geopolitics.

And, man, I'll appreciate at least a short interlude of less drama for GS!!!

zeit is offline zeit
King
Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 05:18
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We should set up a trade with Lego, RP and ND- if we want to achieve the desirable effect that allows us to lower our Lux investment...

What about Map trading- perhaps you'd like to just send it to everyone, along with a straightforward offer (like the one sent to RP), besides our deal with GoW- so taht we still might have some chance of gaining something...

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 05:59
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Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I don't see anything particularly subtle about talking about cutting off trade to other civs. If you follow the chain of logic, it's a war discussion, since the only time trade gets cut off is when civs are at war. ND might miss that chain of logic, but then again, they might not.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 09:14
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I'm playing the turn now; sorry about taking so long. I unloaded a worker in Inchon and moved him into position to start road repairs. Workers in the Dissidentville area completed a road to the city, so once we get Dissidentville and fix Vox's break in the road, we'll have luxuries in Elipolis.

Most of our reinforcements are in Inchon now, and there are four galleys in or near the city in case we need to deliver troops to Elipolis in a hurry. Edit: I have two vet WCs in Elipolis so we won't have to use elites for our patrols.

Any more thoughts before I end the turn?

Last edited by nbarclay on 23-06-2003 at 09:25

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 09:25
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

None, I'm thoughtless

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 10:24
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Turn and shots sent.

Octavian X is offline Octavian X
King
Probably buried under piles of Literature, Biology, or Government homework
Jan 2002
time: 23:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 11:50 Visit Octavian X's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

Care to zoom out next time you take the shot of our map (you know, use the 'z' key to get the larger picture)? It's generally preferable to see all of Stormia at once.

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 20:57
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Did we get 1 or more turns production of 30 shields in Hurricane on it's current build?

If so, we can pass 10 shields (or as many as food will allow) to EotS so we can cut off a turn of the Market and other builds. I think EotS needs to use one of the Furs across the river to get to 20, so we short rush a Library (80) next turn (3-4 shields?), get it's production up to 20, and the Market will finish the next turn.

Hurricane would lose an extra food, using a coastal tile, and lose 2 shields. We could do that a couple more times if we have those extra 10 shields.

If Hurricane didn't get a turn or more of 30 shields on it's current build, we could exchange a couple food in Hurricane and do the same thing. Hurricane uses all 3 Mountains for a turn, giving up a Fur tile to EotS, and EotS does the short rush the same way.

Then we might want to consider a Worker at EotS. A Library for example (probably our best build at that point), will be a 5 turn project at 16 shields per turn, and because we can't get to 20 shields, that's as fast as it can be built. We should be at 16 shields (and even food) if we build the Worker.

The other option is if Hurricane can support 3 turns of not using a Fur tile, we can short rush 40 (8g) on the Library build, and then have EotS at 20 shields for 2 more turns.

-------------------

Since the main reason for preserving food is to allow Hurricane to keep at 20 shields per turn, it should be an ok tradeoff to use the food to keep EotS at 20 shields per turn average with short rushing. In some cases, the food in Hurricane will count a bit more, giving us 2-3 turns of '20' shields instead of just the 1 we'd get in Hurricane itself. In the case of giving up 2 extra food (using 3 Mountains), we should at least stay even in overall production, and make gains in how quickly things can be built between the two cities... which is the point of production anyways right?

The main tradeoff is going to be the gold (~10g per build), and if using the 3rd Mountain, a shield or two in SS. SS should be able to get an extra food to offset that shield by using an irrigated Desert tile instead of the mined Mountain. Whether that's a good trade or not I can't tell, it depends mostly on what we have in SS food and production storage at the time.

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 21:05
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Also, the Courthouses in Monsoon and WW are goign to be rather superflous in the case we build the FP in Arashi. I think Harbors make more sense to build in those two cities with an Arashi FP.

The FP placement is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) decision we are going to make in this game... so how about a seperate discussion thread and then a poll? The builds are all long enough that we should be able to spend several more turns discussing and deciding.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 21:10
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Agree on the FP discussion in another thread, Aeson. You have done estimates on when to finish, do you still have these to start the discussion?

DeepO

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 21:37
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I don't have the food/production numbers in Arashi for a good estimate, but if we pop boom we should be able to finish it in ~12 more turns I think.

The estimates for the Dissidentville area are mostly just guesses, but I think we're at around 40 turns right now. We'd need to rush a Courthouse and maybe an Aquaduct too, and focus most our Workers on the area.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 22:26
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We did not have any 30-shield turns on our current build cycle in EotS and Hurricane. I like the idea of using a short rush to get back the shields we're losing in EotS.

It probably makes sense to prioritize other things over courthouses in the Whirlwind area for the moment if we go with the Arashi=>Elipolis approach for our FP, but we'll need courthouses by the time we move our FP to Elipolis.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:29
  Old Post 23-06-2003 22:33
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

okay, just restating, in case it otherwise would get lost:
I would like SS to build a granary asap, instead of a settler. If it can be rushed: do so.
Further if we want to short rush just a couple of shields, we might consider to use some of our med-infs (preferably regs), they won't be very useful to us, and are costing us money each turn they exist.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:29
  Old Post 24-06-2003 04:35
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We should receive Theo in the following turn, but still need to ratify the deal. In case it doesn't get ratified, please do not accept the deal!

Further, we need to get some discussion going on how to handle research: we're back in the race, in case we want to. The first open tech is here now, and in case we want to support Lego in getting to edu asap, we need to find funds to do so.

DeepO

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:29
  Old Post 24-06-2003 11:10
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How long before we complete the Colossus according to our estimates, should things go smoothly?

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:29
  Old Post 24-06-2003 16:03
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I think we have 80 shields built into it (as of 250BC). That would put us at 6 more turns (130BC) before it completes.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:29
  Old Post 24-06-2003 16:39
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Right. Six turns left on the Colossus.

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