22-06-2003 19:54									#1
	Turn 1 - 4000BC (might not be valid) Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

NOTE: The game has somehow got on Chieftain difficulty. The other teams are aware of this. It seems certain that we'll restart, but just in case we don't I'm starting this thread. I'll lock it if the game starts over.



Shame it prolly won't count .. we've got a good start position.

I would advocate moving 8 and settling there - I'm not a fan of popping huts with your settler in 4000BC and I'd rather have the capital on a hill. The hills up there could make for a really powerhouse production city, good for wondres, and the river would provide enough food (via irrigation) and money. Plus we'd still be on the river.

Comments/Suggestions on that plan?

As we discussed in the other thread: Research Writing at 100%. Yes?

I'll send this turn in 6 or 7 hours, providing the restarted version hasn't begun by then.

	22-06-2003 19:57									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Moving the Scout north onto the hill, to reveal as much FOW as possible to scope out capital sites, reveals Mountains to the north, some plains to the west and a Cow (w00t) and some flood plains along the river.

	22-06-2003 20:16									#3
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Why not opening the hut with the scout

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I wouldn't move the settler, there is plenty of food, we are on river, cow,wine all to come in ten turns

	22-06-2003 20:20									#4
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quote: Originally posted by alva Why not opening the hut with the scout

You know why

About moving the settler: I'm inclined to change my initial thoughts after moving the scout (forgot to move it before I did the first post - not used to playing Exp civs ).

Also, note that there is some coast to the north east of the moutains.

	22-06-2003 21:19									#5
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I say move the settler north and build on the hill.

It gives hill protection, river protection on two fronts, and makes better use of the land to the north - we can't really build a city to the north east because of the mountains

	22-06-2003 21:20									#6
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Have the work move northwest, road, and then move to the cattle and road. Then we can decide on whether to mine or irrigate.

	22-06-2003 22:04									#7
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I can't see... is the starting tile shielded?

	22-06-2003 22:12									#8
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No. The only shielded tile we can see is 7 of the Settler.

	22-06-2003 22:18									#9
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Theseus: can you check to see if you received the turn I forwarded to you?
If you haven't got it then I'm gonna need confirmation of your address - I had to do to from memory when I found I didn't have it written down anywhere.

	22-06-2003 22:59									#10
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Settling where we will give acces to cow+wine*+hill(wine)+shielded grass
That's alot of food and shield we can make use of quickly.
I still say stay.

Second city 9 of the FP/ 8 from the cow


* the reason I know there is another wine bonus, is that I use a resource mod and that is slightly bigger then the default one, so no cheating.
It's not something I did deliberately or even thought about.

	22-06-2003 23:15									#11
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quote: NOTE: The game has somehow got on Chieftain difficulty. The other teams are aware of this. It seems certain that we'll restart, but just in case we don't I'm starting this thread. I'll lock it if the game starts over.

It will be the same starting position if we restart.

	22-06-2003 23:16									#12
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Thanks Panzer. Is it a pre-made map then?

	22-06-2003 23:19									#13
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If you pop a hut with a Settler can you still get a Settler from the hut? I was under the impression that you could, but I may be mistaken.

	22-06-2003 23:37									#14
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We are not going to get a settler anyway, someelse needs to have at least 2 cities before we even have a chance of getting a settler.

(It could happen I guess)-
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Not sure on the settler using to get a settler bit (don't think so though. IIRC no settler in build que and settler walking around)

	23-06-2003 01:00									#15
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I say settle where we start. It can still be a production powerhouse with 5 hills.

FP:

richard at podos dot net

	23-06-2003 02:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by alva We are not going to get a settler anyway, someelse needs to have at least 2 cities before we even have a chance of getting a settler.

Is that new from the patch? Because I have had settlers popped from a hut when culture expands, and there is no way a second city can be built within 10 turns.

My understanding is that if you want a settler from a hut you can't have a settler or have one queued.

Similarly, if you want to avoid barbs you can't have any military units or have any queued.

	23-06-2003 02:31									#17
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Because I have had settlers popped from a hut when culture expands,

Sure it's possible,
1. you play on Deity (AI starts with 2 settlers)
2. The AI has popped a settler (don't know if the AI plays by the same rules as the human here.)

To be best of my knowlegde, you can't get a settler unless you have fewer cities then the overral average of your opponent. And the reason you gave.

	23-06-2003 13:59									#18
	Tired of ads?

It's occured to me that we don't necessarily need to research Writing at 100%

On the first turn of the game I doubt we can get it any lower than 40 turns even running at max - so I'll just set it and whatever seem optimal.

This is no doubt obvious to the rest of you, but I have to remind myself of these things or I'll make stupid mistakes.

btw, I'm not going to send this turn in it's current state. We'll get the new (hopefully unbugged) version in the next couple of days so we have until then to make a decision on the move/not-move question.

	23-06-2003 15:51									#19
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: Because I have had settlers popped from a hut when culture expands, Sure it's possible, 1. you play on Deity (AI starts with 2 settlers) 2. The AI has popped a settler (don't know if the AI plays by the same rules as the human here.) To be best of my knowlegde, you can't get a settler unless you have fewer cities then the overral average of your opponent. And the reason you gave.

The game was Monarch and all human players.


Come to think of it, I popped a settler in the team game we are playing after about 4 turns!

	23-06-2003 15:54									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

It was my understanding that, in regard to your position relative to the average number of cities-per-civ, that you simply needed to be *not above average*, rather than specifically below average.

	23-06-2003 15:56									#21
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We need to make a decision on whether or not to move.

A show of hands please?

My vote goes for settling this turn.

	23-06-2003 17:38									#22
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quote: to be *not above average*, rather than specifically below average.

Ahh, then that's where my confusion comes from, thanks
-
Remember that with EXp we stand a chance to get some free techs, you will never get the the one you are currently researching, and you will get the cheapest one.
A good tactic might be to on zero research for a while (technically on eugh religion). If we need to do research we can go at a 100% without losing any time.

	23-06-2003 18:16									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by alva Remember that with EXp we stand a chance to get some free techs, you will never get the the one you are currently researching, and you will get the cheapest one.

But if we want to research Writing, which is the most expensive tier 1 tech, then does it really matter if we use that trick to manipulate the huts? Our only other option would be to research either ceremonial burial or pottery in the hope of being gifted the other one by a hut (they are both the cheapest, IIRC). I can't really see how that would help us.

I tested a similar scenario to this in SP last night and I think we can start of researching Writing at 30%, bringing in +3 gpt and still research no slower than if we were at 100%. On the other hand, putting research down to 0% doesn't give us much of an advantage (+4 gpt I think ... or was it still +3?).

Oh, and I'm assuming you still want to build this turn, alva - or have you changed your mind?

	23-06-2003 23:13									#24
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Well, we've had this thing for more than 24 hours so I'm just gonna play it.

	23-06-2003 23:22									#25
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Turn log:

code:

1. Move Scout 8
2. Set research to CB - in case the hut pops a tech we can get a more valuable one
3. Settle our capital - Izzardia
4. Hut pops Warrior Code!
5. Set production in Izzardia to Scout - 5 turns.
6. Move worker 7
7. Set research to Writing at 20% - 40 turns to complete, +3 gpt

Turn sent to Tabemono

	23-06-2003 23:33									#26
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Scout north next? Ending the turns on mountains...?

	24-06-2003 00:30									#27
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Rock on! That's a solid start spot!

-Arrian

	24-06-2003 02:16									#28
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quote: Originally posted by alva Scout north next? Ending the turns on mountains...?

I would suggest W-N. Then if we don't see anything interesting to our west we can go N-E or N-N onto the mountains.

	24-06-2003 02:42									#29
	Got spare money?

That was my initial choice too, but with so many łountains N(E), I changed my mind, it's not that important anyway, next one will be ready soon.
I would like too see him in one direction though (IE uncover FOW and run around in circles. HUTS!!! )

Go West (n)

	24-06-2003 13:42									#30
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I've been sent the new version of the game.

I repeated my exact moves from last time and sent the save on to Tabemono.

Interestingly, and oddly, I popped a different tech from the hut.

We've got Masonry now, NOT Warrior Code!

All else was identical.