24-06-2003 00:53									#1
	Apple launches the PowerMac G5 Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

http://www.apple.com/powermac/

I'll post more once I wade through their marketing...

	24-06-2003 00:58									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Yeah, once again their numbers are fishy.

For example:
P4 Xeon 3.06GHz: http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results...407-02060.html: SPECINTBase: 1089

not 836 like they say on their page.

Apple never changes...

	24-06-2003 01:02									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"When we started the G5, we knew we couldn't make it just a little bit faster, we had to make it a whole lot faster"
Damn straight you did!

	24-06-2003 01:02									#4
	Remove this text

Real benchmark numbers (source: spec.org for the PCs, Apple.com for G5)

Xeon 3.06GHz (533MHz systembus):
int base: 1089 (Apple claims 836 on their page)
fp base: 1053 (Apple claims 646 on their page)

P4 3.0GHz (800MHz systembus):
int base: 1164
fp base: 1229


G5 2GHz:
int base: 800
fp base: 840

Apple, have you no shame?

How can they get away with this stuff time and time again?

	24-06-2003 01:04									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

So it IS an apple/ibm collaboration! Fa! I'm happy that my dad works at a company working hand in hand with apple.

	24-06-2003 02:10									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

A $3000US computer and it comes with a $100 video card?

The highest-end G5 comes with a Radeon 9600...

And they only have 3 cards for selection: GeForce FX 5200 Ultra (5200 is the cheapest FX, ~$70), Radeon 9600, Radeon 9800. Pretty sad...

	24-06-2003 02:16									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

We've always been a few months behind on graphics cards... The selection now is better than before. This is an upward trend.

	24-06-2003 02:17									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

That's one well designed computer. I think Jonathan Ives has another award in his future.

	24-06-2003 02:19									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think he's losing his touch.

The old PowerMacs looked better.

The inside of the case, however, looks very well designed. It just looks fugly on the outside.

The handles are unnecessary and tacky, it's overly metallic, and it's more bland than I'm used to from Apple.

	24-06-2003 02:21									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In other news:

Asher proposes to Bill Gates!



-=Vel=-

	24-06-2003 02:23									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Silly Vel, for this thread it should read:

Asher proposes to Craig Barrett!

	24-06-2003 02:24									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The outside would look better without all the perforations, but they're necessary for the cooling system to work. I think he did a first-rate job given the constraints he had to work with. It's still light years ahead of anything the PC manufacturers are crapping out these days.

	24-06-2003 02:26									#13
	Support Apolyton

I disagree, I could name half a dozen kickass PC cases that do even a better job of cooling.

Granted, they don't ship with OEM computers.

	24-06-2003 02:27									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Asher!

-=Vel=-

	24-06-2003 02:47									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

OEM?

"I think he's losing his touch.
The old PowerMacs looked better.
The inside of the case, however, looks very well designed. It just looks fugly on the outside."
Wait... you're a pc user, right? I thought functionality mattered more to you than aesthetics!!!

I personally like the new look. I think it's slick.

	24-06-2003 03:16									#16
	Suffering from ads?

Those pictures look terrible!

What ever happened to Apple PR?

You'd think they could at least afford a stuidio shoot and some decent lighting.

	24-06-2003 03:29									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

price?

	24-06-2003 03:33									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

$2,000 - $3,000

	24-06-2003 03:34									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

is that for the lowest model or the highest model?

	24-06-2003 03:35									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

$2,000 for lowest, $3,000 for highest.

	24-06-2003 03:42									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

ah i see. still out of my price range.

	24-06-2003 03:43									#22
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'm going to
a) save my pennies and dimes
and
b) wait for the next big release and/or prices to come down...

	24-06-2003 03:49									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Wait... you're a pc user, right? I thought functionality mattered more to you than aesthetics!!!

I'm a gay PC user. 'nuff said.

	24-06-2003 04:09									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You're a traitor, that's what you are!

But seriously, I think it looks pretty good. I like the shape the sillhouette of it makes...

	24-06-2003 05:36									#25
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

--"Yeah, once again their numbers are fishy."

Well, this is Apple, so it's only to be expected.

However, the ones you've quoted aren't fishy. You've just failed to notice the compiler used. The Apple numbers used gcc, the Intel numbers used ICC++. It's very well known that gcc sucks for P4 optimizations.
Still, best-available-compiler vs best-available-compiler would have been better. At least Apple should be within a stone's throw of the PC low-end again.

Wraith
I'm really quite pleasant until I'm awake

	24-06-2003 06:05									#26
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I noticed the compilers. I also noticed the OS.

They intentionally used Linux + GCC because they knew it sucked on the P4.

95% of PC users don't use Linux + GCC, and use apps compiled with either Intel or Microsoft's compilers and run on Windows, so it makes sense to use those.

	24-06-2003 06:10									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Maybe a compiler with G5 optimisations would show an even bigger "leap".

You've got to admit though Asher, the G5 will be very nice for running Mac applications - not that it's a big market but then some people would rather lose their genitals than their favourite operating system.

	24-06-2003 06:15									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Maybe a compiler with G5 optimisations would show an even bigger "leap".

By "G5" optimizations, you mean PowerPC-64 optimizations.

Yeah, GCC has those. IBM engineers have been tweaking GCC for 2 years in preparation for the Power4 (the G5 is a cutdown Power4). Intel doesn't touch GCC, and instead relies on its cross-platform Intel compiler. As such, GCC code sucks ass on the Pentium 4 and is optimized for PowerPC quite heavily.

----

Surprise, Surprise: http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-1020215.html?tag=fd_top

Apple's charging users, again, to upgrade to OS 10.3.

So that's at least 4 OSes Mac users had to buy in the time period where Windows XP came out and offered free updates.

	24-06-2003 07:07									#29
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

That's funny... I can't remember the last time I bought an operating system... And I'm running 10.2...

Hmmmm.