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rwprice
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Lynchburg, VA USA
Mar 2001
time: 00:12
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How long did you play Civ2 until you really "got it"? What I mean is, did you immediately grasp the goal and point of the game, or did it take you a while to really understand? I don't mean fully understanding all the intricacies of gameplay, but rather the "big picture". I'm still fairly new to these types of games, and really new to Civ2, but sometimes it feels like I'm just pointlessly moving units around on the screen. Figuring out the main purpose isn't always clear, and I'm wondering if anyone else has felt this way. I'm going to keep plugging away, but I'm interested in knowing how most of you learned the game and became proficient at it.
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johnmcd
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Edinburgh
Oct 1999
time: 05:12
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I remember trying to kill a buffalo with a warrior for about two hours on my first night and becoming highly frustrated with the whole experience. Later I built a Great Library in a city as I thought it would be pointless to build a normal one only to have to upgrade to a great one later. Once you get over that sort of hurdle its a fairly shallow learning curve that seems to carry on indefineatly, it is this endless learning curve, even after three years that keeps me at it. If anyone claims to know everything I'd be most surprised.
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rwprice
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Lynchburg, VA USA
Mar 2001
time: 00:12
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Thanks for your replies. I go through this cycle each time I pick up a new game. The excitement of getting something new gives way to the challenge of figuring out the mechanics of gameplay. This usually involves reading the manual and/or going through the tutorials. After that, it's time to start one of my own. After a little while, though, I start to realize that now I'm going to have to really learn how things work and what all the little "secrets" are. That's where the work begins, and also where I often get discouraged. I'm going to persevere with Civ2, though, and try all kinds of different things until I have a good feel for the game.
Just in case anyone misunderstood...what I meant by "understand" is not the same as mastery. You can understand a game and what you're supposed to do without having mastered it yet. Mastery can take years, as some of you have said.
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George Garrett
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Victoria. B.C. Canada
May 1999
time: 21:12
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Hi rwprice...to better understand the game, I suggest that each time you start a new game, that you have a goal in mind...for example, in following the tutorial, say, after it leaves off, can you go on to make the U.S.A. mighty among nations? If you play the Rome scenario, can you re-create the
Empire, in all its glory over the opposition of the Greeks, Babylonions,
Mongols, Persians, and other formidable opponents? If the WW2 scenario, can you have the Allies win it by 1945? If you embark on conquering the world,
can you knock off 6 AI civs before 2020? Or land on Apolyton with your DIY
spacecraft before that date - or both? (as I have just done!  ) There are also lots of interesting challenges throughout these forums, that, if taken up by you, could greatly assist your understanding of Civ -suggestions, anyone, that would help rwprice?...if you play Civ, you must have some interest in empire building - why not go to the map editor, create your dream country to your satisfaction, then stamp out 4 -20 clones of that country to see what various AI civs can make of terrain identical to your own, in competion with your own Civ driven by human intelligence?
I believe that once you heve a goal in Civ, you will understand what the game's all about...even if it takes you a while to find a way to that goal, by trial and error. At the very least, I suggest you try one game at Deity
level...there. very quickly, you will understand that the aim of Civ, basically, is to survive, let alone, grow, flourish, prosper and conquer(which is what Civ means to me). Good luck!
[This message has been edited by George Garrett (edited March 29, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by George Garrett (edited March 29, 2001).]
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Exile
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of the Benighted Realms
Sep 2000
time: 23:12
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Another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet; Civ2 has some startlingly fresh possibilities. Given the right scenario, the game can be more than or entirely different from, the typical conquer-or-be-conquered game. The Jules Verne scenario, included w/the MGE package is a completely different experience than the default game. In that scenario the player must approach the entire game with the idea of exploration, discovery, interaction w/"the natives," and a bit of ingenuity when it comes to "tech research." There are all kinds of surprises that playing the default game will simply not prepare you for. All is not what it seems.
And this is just one example. There are dozens of scenario-laden sites on the web, w/every period, fantasy, and extrapolation you could think of. And if you can think of a new one, the scenario creation tools in Civ2 will allow you to create it!
Salutations,
Exile
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East Street Trader
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London, United Kingdom
Jun 2000
time: 05:12
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That one tickled me to. Lol.
Anyway, my 2 cents worth is that finishing a game or two is good. There are two ways to win and they are rather different. You can build a spaceship, launch it and wait for it to arrive at Alpha Centauri or you can conquer every other civ by taking all their cities.
The two approaches have in common the need to build an industrial base capable of churning out either enough military units to accomplish the conquest or enough spaceship parts to build the space craft. And there are inbuilt happiness constraints that must be faced in every game.
Military wins can come quite quickly and I suggest you try that first. Choose a small map and a setting where civs which are destroyed don't restart. You will need to spend some time just getting cities down at first but at quite an early stage you might decide you can get half a dozen or more decent offensive units into the field and you then move on your nearest A1 opponent. the bigger picture resolves itself into balancing off the resources you are applying to keep up in the tech race to the resources you can manage to devote to building enough military units and getting them to each successive front.
Don't try the silly real time combat approach of just building up and building up until you have a huge force which can smash down all opposition. The guys who developed civ were WAAAYYY too savvy to let that work.
DaveV or Smash or War4ever or one of our numerous other war mongers will say if I'm talking out of my arse but you may well find that you have to set yourself intermediate objectives. Say, build up enough to wipe out the Mongels (who are near neighbours) but then go back to a period of development so that you can re-establish a tech and military advantage against the A1 civs who have not had a war to contend with while you were slugging it out with opponent 1. When you judge the time is ripe you go for A1 civ number 2. And so on.
Alpha Centauri is different. There is no short cut. Whatever setting you play on you must have all the necessary tech before you can build your spaceship. While taking steps to get the tech (a matter primarily of arrows) you must also build up your industrial base so as to have enough shields and money.
The tech tree is complex. Warrior Code is an early tech which does nothing for you as regards getting nearer the tech needed to start building the space ship so maybe you ignore it. But the balancing factor here is that the A1 civs are not about to just leave you unmolested. So you can't ignore military matters entirely. The trick is to devote enough resources to defence while putting the bulk of your efforts into research and developing a good economy.
Once you've had a go concentrating firmly on military victory I suggest you have a go concentrating firmly on the space ship route. Choose a large map for that one.
Once you see how you achieved your overall objectives in a couple of games you will start to ask yourself what wrong turnings you took and to speculate about whether it would all have been quicker and easier, or more secure, if you had adopted a slightly different approach.
I actually don't advocate studying these boards to improve until you've played a dozen games or more. Many threads assume a HUGE amount of background grip on all sorts of aspects of the game; some are about grand overall strategies and some are about really tiny points.
So play first, post later.
But, such is the comradeship on offer here, that this is hard to do - and maybe truly duff advice if you want to have fun first and get better at Civ2 second.
And in that spirit, welcome rwprice, I say.
P.S. I bet MP is indeed the way to really learn quick. Must try it soon.
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Ilkuul
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of Thame (UK)
Mar 2000
time: 05:12
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To begin with the ONLY way I could win the game was by world conquest (building virtually nothing but barracks in my cities, and stealing fundamentalism at the first opportunity!). This method of victory really used to bother me --especially when, after slashing my way to victory through a bloodbath of slaughtered enemies, I was told that I was "100% civilized"!!!!
However I've finally learned something of what East Street Trader was talking about so learnedly above -- i.e., balancing military and tech advance. It's taken me the better part of 6 years, tho'! The thing to come to terms with is that you can't win either by pure militarism, or by pure technology. (From time to time during my 'military years' I would try pursuing JUST tech in the pitiful hope that I might finally discover how to win peacefully...) But at last I've realised that whatever happens you're going to have to do some fighting; and whatever happens, you're going to have to do some research (if you want to win, that is).
It's probably still not ideal (and I'm sure many of the masters on these forums would be able to describe 'better' ways of winning), but the strategy I most often use now is to adopt a militaristic approach early on in the game (while not totally ignoring the peaceful technologies), defeating or severely weakening as many as possible of my most powerful opponents; and then in the end game with only a few weaker civs remaining, I'm free to really forge ahead with technology and can finally win by 'spacequest'. For me at least, this gives the best scores.
Oh, and I should probably add that I have managed to win at Deity using this strategy -- but usually only after 4 or 5 false starts (not cheating, just abandoning a game when I realised I was on a downward spiral...).
------------------
Ilkuul
Every time you win, remember: "The first shall be last".
Every time you lose, remember: "The last shall be first".
[This message has been edited by Ilkuul (edited March 30, 2001).]
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MBloomIII
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Jacksonville, FL
Jan 2001
time: 00:12
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I remember when I guy at work handed me some disks and said. "Here, load this. It's a really cool game." This was, I think, 1993. Many, many, many hours later I realised I still had a job to do and a family at home. Civ I was simple. Build a couple of chariots and RULE THE WORLD! I don't think I ever built a caravan in Civ I. This explains why I would get my a$$ handed to me at the higher levels. Civ II came out and suddenly much thought was required. Trial and error led to mastery at King level but why the hell do my citizens revolt so much early on at emperor and deity. Screw it, I'm staying at king playing the Aztecs on a real world with 3 other civs. Isolationism at its best. Enter Apolyton. The world of Civ is now at my finger tips. OCC, ICS, MP. It all makes sense now. Trade is important!! I no longer feel guilty for devoting so many hours to this game. There are other nuts out there as well.  As for learning, I still am. But Apolyton flattens the learning curve greatly.
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Chronus
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"I remember trying to kill a buffalo with a warrior for about two hours on my first night and becoming highly frustrated with the whole experience."
THIS is just TOO FUNNY!
I remember the first time my Foriegn Advisor had announced that a rival was undergoing a revolution. I had never switched governments before so I thought "WOOHOO! That's one more rival in a weakened state!" Of course, a few turns later . . .
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29-03-2001 03:34
never realized there were odds to this sort of thing
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