24-06-2003 04:33									#1
	Hypocrisy over a game? Get a bigger avatar today!

So, I work for a PR-related firm, and we recently were approached about doing some work for Take Two Interactive. Take Two, as most of you probably know, is a software publishing company, and the most famous of their products is probably the Grand Theft Auto series, which has inspired no small amount of controversy.

I had actually been intrigued by this work and was hoping to work on the account, since I have a keen interest in computer games and would like to work with such a company.

Well, I was told by the SVP I work for that, in no uncertain terms we would not work for Take Two. She explained that they found GTA too violent and therefore they had moral objections to the client. This was all based on assumptions, mind you, as nobody at my firm, including myself, has played the game.

If my firm was consistent in this, I'd have no problem. But the only other company we have refused to work for based on such a moral objection was Phillip Morris. We have done work and are doing ongoing work for clients such as:

GE (like pollution?)
Enron
Global Crossing
Sony Pictures (wonder if they've ever released a violent film?)
Showtime
HBO (Oz, anyone?)
Exxon

And many others. On top of that, two years ago we did work for a major Southern company of global proportions who committed blatant, obvious sexual orientation discrimination, but we looked the other way and are continuing to work for them. Now, this was not illegal, unfortunately, but you'd think my firm would have, given its stated preference for making moral decisions with clients, had the cajones to walk away, since we profess to abhor such discrimination.

So I guess I learned it wasn't a moral objection to the product/actions of a company, it was the chickenshittedness of management, as they just don't want to be seen taking on a controversial client.

In conclusion, I just went out and bought GTA III.

	24-06-2003 04:35									#2
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Ha, I stole Gta 3... and 1 and 2... etc... lol

	24-06-2003 04:35									#3
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This isn't about you, little man. Avaunt, avaunt.

	24-06-2003 04:37									#4
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What do I now not have the right to comment on your threads, are you so above me or something....?

And I did steal GTA... I wasn't lying.

	24-06-2003 04:40									#5
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No, Thorn, but your comment was useless. This is exactly what I was saying in the other thread. Instead of posting a comment/reaction to my post, you just came up with a nonsequiter that gloated about your stealing the game, trying to draw attention to what you think must be a cool act. Yes, pirating software is so daring.

It's not all about you.

	24-06-2003 04:42									#6
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No I was just pointing out the irony of stealing a game that teaches people to steal things.... but you blew up at me.... I'm starting to dislike you...

	24-06-2003 04:44									#7
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Begone, wretch!

	24-06-2003 04:46									#8
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Look the last 5 posts of your topic has been spent arguing with me when you could have just ignored the comment... and I wouldn't have said another thing...

	24-06-2003 04:46									#9
	Tired of ads?

And Thorn... discussing theft of software isn't allowed at Apolyton... so if you want to continue posting this week... chill...

The Advertising Agency I used to work for had a more realistic view toward clients. When we did background checks on potential clients, we really didn't care about the products... we were more concerned if they had a track record for paying their bills on time.

The big joke around the agency was when people asked why we didn't have a tobacco account, we would say "Nah... against agency policy".... but in reality, it was because we couldn't land one, not for lack of trying

	24-06-2003 04:47									#10
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Boris, if a company has a policy, it has to stick to it. I can understand you seeing it as illogical or hypocrisy but it's not your judgement call.

	24-06-2003 04:48									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Is there any use for this thread besides a catfight?

Oh, and EVC, I haven't banned you for a long time, now. We're about do, so chill, or else you know the drill.

	24-06-2003 04:51									#12
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Slow server connection to here let Ming get here first again. Damn.

	24-06-2003 04:51									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Boris, if a company has a policy, it has to stick to it. I can understand you seeing it as illogical or hypocrisy but it's not your judgement call.

Did I say it was my call? How could I do anything but stick to it? Work for Take Two in secret?

I am just pointing out the hypocrisy, because it amuses me. The policy isn't a written one, it's ad hoc, and as I demonstrated, inconsistent. Basically, they refuse to work for someone based on second-hand conjecture and cowardice. Then they pat themselves on the back for thinking they made some sort of moral stand. I think that's worthy of my scorn!

	24-06-2003 04:52									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Boris, if a company has a policy, it has to stick to it. I can understand you seeing it as illogical or hypocrisy but it's not your judgement call.

But, if that policy isn't applied across the board, then it is a useless policy.

In boris's example:

1.Sexually descrimination is okay. They work for a company that does this.

2. A product that simulates violence and illegal activity, is the reason they don't take the Take Two account.

Seems stupid to me.

ACK!

	24-06-2003 04:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Is there any use for this thread besides a catfight?

Please. It is a little tiring to hear this every time two gay posters argue with each other.

	24-06-2003 04:54									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski But, if that policy isn't applied across the board, then it is a useless policy. In boris's example: 1.Sexually descrimination is okay. They work for a company that does this. 2. A product that simulates violence and illegal activity, is the reason they don't take the Take Two account. Seems stupid to me. ACK!

Bingo!

Real world malfeasance vs. simulated violence in a computer game. The later is somehow worse?

	24-06-2003 04:54									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Please. It is a little tiring to hear this every time two gay posters argue with each other.

Seems inappropriate to me.

Now quit catfighting.



ACK!

	24-06-2003 04:57									#18
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I'll scratch your eyes out.

	24-06-2003 04:59									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

People should stay on topic, or not bother to post.

I'm in a banning kind of mood today

	24-06-2003 05:04									#20
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GTA is a real fun game... you get to steal cars... commit acts of terrorism and have sex with and then beat up prostitutes... good moral fiber for our kids....

	24-06-2003 05:09									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Thorn GTA is a real fun game... you get to steal cars... commit acts of terrorism and have sex with and then beat up prostitutes... good moral fiber for our kids....

Now now, no talk of stealing on Ape. GTA has simulated stealing, simulated beatings, simulated terrorism, implied sex (you don't really see anything), and simulated muggings of prostitutes the game implies you had sex with.

No talk of actual stealing, it could corrupt the kids. The kids playing GTA ...

	24-06-2003 05:10									#22
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Oh did I mention selling drugs... and commiting other crimes...

	24-06-2003 05:16									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Did I say it was my call? How could I do anything but stick to it? Work for Take Two in secret? I am just pointing out the hypocrisy, because it amuses me. The policy isn't a written one, it's ad hoc, and as I demonstrated, inconsistent. Basically, they refuse to work for someone based on second-hand conjecture and cowardice. Then they pat themselves on the back for thinking they made some sort of moral stand. I think that's worthy of my scorn!

Agreed. Of course experience has taught me that this is exactly the sort of thing that your superiors don't appreciate being brought to their attention. It serves as a kind of model for the political system, where everyone is happy to see someone else's ox gored "for the good of society", and yet has the temerity to complain when their own pet privilege is in the crosshairs.

	24-06-2003 05:32									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Agreed. Of course experience has taught me that this is exactly the sort of thing that your superiors don't appreciate being brought to their attention. It serves as a kind of model for the political system, where everyone is happy to see someone else's ox gored "for the good of society", and yet has the temerity to complain when their own pet privilege is in the crosshairs.

Certainly.

I'm not stupid, however--I didn't voice any but the most bland of objections to my superiors, and let it go. I then made my silent protest of purchasing the game.

Well, off to beat up the whores!

	24-06-2003 05:32									#25
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On the upside Boris, your compagny must be doing well to able to turn down (potential) clients like that.

	24-06-2003 05:33									#26
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quote: I'm in a banning kind of mood today

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/show...55&pagenumber=2

I'd believe it!

As for your company I agree that their policy, if none of them have played GTA 3 deserves scorn.

	24-06-2003 05:34									#27
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You going to kill them, or just beat them up? (wondering if Boris meets the serial killer criteria yet)....

	24-06-2003 05:38									#28
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Thorn... you are one post away from another long vacation...

	24-06-2003 05:48									#29
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quote: Originally posted by alva On the upside Boris, your compagny must be doing well to able to turn down (potential) clients like that.

To their credit, they stuck to their guns about Phillip Morris even when we were in our darkest economic days. PM was practically begging us, too!

But now we are in quite good shape, actually.

	24-06-2003 08:07									#30
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Oh...my...God!



I am the WORST driver ever! I was TRYING to be good, but I kept running over people. My roommate was watching as I careened wildly through the streets.

Naturally, I switched the radio to the pretentious classical station. There's nothing quite flying over hills, smacking into other cars, etc. while the Brindisi from [i]La Traviata[i] is playing...