24-06-2003 20:09									#1
	Including tourism in future versions of Civ Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Just an idea for an enhancement.

Civs could get commerce bonus for tourism. The greater number of civs you are at peace with, the greater tourism bonus you get..

Cities that qualify for Tourism bonus :

Any city with a Great Wonder.

Any city with cultural value > 10000.

Any coastal city with 1/3 city radius = jungle. To get the bonus, this city must build "Tourism Facilities" - a new city improvement.

Any island city in a tropical region (not sure how to determine that).

Comments?

	24-06-2003 20:22									#2
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A qualified city must be connected to other civs via the trade network for the bonus to take effect. This makes tourism bonus subject to Trade Embargos.

Airports in a qualified city produce enhance tourism bonus.

	24-06-2003 20:36									#3
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Great Wonders should be cumulative, something like the old caravan routes whose value increased based on the size of the two cities. Therefore, the more Wonders and tourist related improvements within the city the greater the Tourist Income.

You could even have Tourist related resources, like the Grand Canyon, Hot Springs, etc that would increase the value if in the city's radius. Maybe have a Resort improvement that required a tourist destination within the city to be built.

Oh, and bring back caravans.

	25-06-2003 01:44									#4
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I included some ideas on implementing tourism in a Civ3 mod in my "Mod Ideas" thread in the Civ3 Creation forum here.

Basically, what I suggested was to have "Tourist Accomadations" improvement require a bonus resource called a "Scenic Site". The "Tourist Accomadations" would generate gold and luxuries like the Market improvement to reflect the economic boost that tourism gives. It's not much, but it should work well using the Civ3 system.

	25-06-2003 07:22									#5
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Maybe a resort could be built on a lake or on the coast x tiles away from the equator. Or you could have a ski resort which could be built if a snow capped mountain was in the city radius.

Also maybe you could build national parks. You could set the area when you create one, the bigger it is the more gold you get. The terrain could have influence on the gold, ie there's more life in jungles than desert so a national park with jungle produces more than desert. Anyway, within the radius of the national park there can be no cities (and if it's in the city radius those tiles can't be worked) and the only worker action available would be to build roads.

	25-06-2003 09:56									#6
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A tourism small wonder that would allow cities with certain culturual values to generate extra commerce sounds good.

But I'm a bit iffy on actually building a new city improvement. Civ3's improvements tend to modify existing values. (add culture, research or commerce) or have some important function. We're not playing Sim City. Tourism facility for each city is too specific and seems like a useless improvement to have if its ownly use is to give you the added tourism bonus

	25-06-2003 14:19									#7
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I like the idea, but agree with dexters on the individual improvements. I'd like to see an either/or for a tourism bonus. Either the city has sufficient culture to attract tourism, or it has natural features that attract it (or, of course, it has neither and misses out). Whether it be snow-capped mountains, coastline, freshwater lake, inland sea, jungle (make cutting that jungle a little less of a no-brain decision) or even luxuries (Come See The Hadremetum Vineyards!), I'd like to see the terrain play a role in any tourism bonus. Maybe add a smaller, instant effect for wonder building. It's an intriguing idea, but I want it based more on what we're already doing, rather than just giving us something else to build.

	25-06-2003 17:50									#8
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb You could even have Tourist related resources, like the Grand Canyon, Hot Springs, etc that would increase the value if in the city's radius. Maybe have a Resort improvement that required a tourist destination within the city to be built.

I like this idea. This is like Alpha Centauri where every generated map had areas that were "natural wonders". In AC, natural wonders provided a cache of concetrated resources. In Civ, natural wonders within a city radius could provide a tourism bonus.

	25-06-2003 18:30									#9
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hi ,

aint that reflected allready true the culture , ......

have a nice day

	25-06-2003 18:32									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi I like the idea, but agree with dexters on the individual improvements. I'd like to see an either/or for a tourism bonus. Either the city has sufficient culture to attract tourism, or it has natural features that attract it (or, of course, it has neither and misses out). Whether it be snow-capped mountains, coastline, freshwater lake, inland sea, jungle (make cutting that jungle a little less of a no-brain decision) or even luxuries (Come See The Hadremetum Vineyards!), I'd like to see the terrain play a role in any tourism bonus. Maybe add a smaller, instant effect for wonder building. It's an intriguing idea, but I want it based more on what we're already doing, rather than just giving us something else to build.

Something doesn't seem right about having a small wonder for Tourism. Doesn't a small wonder need to be associated with a significant event (Heroic Epic) or place (Wall Street)?

Perhaps Tourism should be an Ancient Era civ advance that allows building of a new city improvement - Tourism Facilities. Prerequisite: Currency. A Tourism City improvement is necessary because otherwise, how will an individual city have the infrastructure to maximize profit from its tourism?

After reading your post, I think my ideas about tourism cities being only in tropical regions was too restrictive. There should be a wide range of terrain types that will cause a tourism bonus.

If the city does not have a Wonder or exceptional terrain, tourism bonus should be tied completely to cultural value. If cultural value is > 10000 and tourism facilities have been built, then commerce bonus is given. Even if the city is in the middle of the desert or tundra.

In addition to Airports adding to tourism bonus, colliseum would add to tourism bonus.

There is an interesting link to history of Tourism here: link

	25-06-2003 23:10									#11
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I think you misread my post. Never did the idea of a tourism small wonder occur to me. I just meant building a wonder gives a small, but instant, boost to tourism.

	26-06-2003 02:23									#12
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I think adding a new output, "tourism" is out of the question. Too much coding.

The original suggestion was basically tourism that increases gpt income, and not a tourism bonus per se.

	26-06-2003 05:15									#13
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this would definitely favor the French, which, as a fan of invading the French, cannot happen :|

j/k

	26-06-2003 07:05									#14
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I'm really being ambiguous in this thread, sorry. When I mentioned a boost to tourism, I meant it as a gpt bonus. I agree that not only is a separate tourism output too much coding, but it would be superfluous and counterintuitive. That being said, once you build, say, Shakespeare's, you should see an immediate jump in tourism revenue.

	26-06-2003 09:22									#15
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quote: I like this idea. This is like Alpha Centauri where every generated map had areas that were "natural wonders". In AC, natural wonders provided a cache of concetrated resources. In Civ, natural wonders within a city radius could provide a tourism bonus.

I like the idea, but the problem with it is civs would fight each other for the natural wonders. When was the last time two nations fought each other for a tourist destination?

	26-06-2003 09:26									#16
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Um, how about Grenada?

But seriously, I like the idea of tourism. Of course, it wasn't really economically significant until after WW2 I believe, so it shouldn't appear before then.

I agree that I wouldn't want nations fighting for a tourist destination.

Also, the idea that tourism is already sort of contained within culture is interesting.

Last edited by ChickenHawk on 26-06-2003 at 09:33

	26-06-2003 09:58									#17
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Tourism? Not sure if I'd want to visit most of my cities.

	26-06-2003 10:02									#18
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 this would definitely favor the French, which, as a fan of invading the French, cannot happen :| j/k

What are you talking about ? Invading France ? Dare to repeat, fool !

As for tourism, great idea. It would be a commercial ressource, which could even work with small countries.

	26-06-2003 13:58									#19
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod I like the idea, but the problem with it is civs would fight each other for the natural wonders. When was the last time two nations fought each other for a tourist destination?

I see a bit of history is required here. Tourism has been around since at least the 19th century (IRC), but it was not a thing "for the masses". During the first half of the 20th century, this fellow named Adolf H. invented the notion of mass tourism, where every member of the working class had the opportunity to get a taste of this tourism business. One of his ideas of implementing tourism was to have hordes of german tourists traipsing all over Europe and North Africa in armored vehicles, an operation later called World War 2. Other nations were not very happy about this, especially when they saw the mess those tourists left behind, so they banded together to send them (the germans) back home.

This form of tourism is already implemented in Civ3, with the AI sending all those troops picknicking (sp?) inside your borders, then declaring war when you ask them to leave.

	26-06-2003 16:54									#20
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that's funny

Actually, I think it'd be kinda fun to fight over tourist locations.

	26-06-2003 18:07									#21
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quote: Originally posted by dexters I think adding a new output, "tourism" is out of the question. Too much coding. The original suggestion was basically tourism that increases gpt income, and not a tourism bonus per se.

What thread are you reading? I don't know whose original suggestion you are referring to - not mine. You even suggested earlier in this thread that a commerce bonus would be good. Explain why gpt bonus makes more sense than commerce bonus. Tourism stimulates local commerce. The government then decides how best to use the proceeds of that additional commerce - for science, cash, or happiness.

	26-06-2003 18:17									#22
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quote: Originally posted by ChickenHawk But seriously, I like the idea of tourism. Of course, it wasn't really economically significant until after WW2 I believe, so it shouldn't appear before then.

Tourism had an financial impact on Egypt after Pyramids were built. Look at Civilopedia description of Colossus. Says right there that it made tourism impact on Greece.

quote: I agree that I wouldn't want nations fighting for a tourist destination.

Is that idea any more strange than fighting for control of UN or Eiffel Tower while playing Civ3?

	26-06-2003 18:24									#23
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To anyone who dismissed this idea of adding Tourism to future version of Civ3 because of "too much coding" : Please explain your qualification to make such a statement and back up your statement with proof. Otherwise , don't talk about something you don't understand!

	26-06-2003 23:02									#24
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hi ,

, well there could be more wonders , civ specific or trait specific wonders would also be nice and welcome , ......

the french could have the eifeltower , that would give lets say a happy face and one two wealth , .......

have a nice day

	26-06-2003 23:53									#25
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Feephi, the too much coding issue was in reference to a "Tourism" output, along with shields, beakers, happiness and gold, not the idea of tourism as a commerce and/or gpt (which I think are being used interchangeably, since a strict gpt bonus would still free up more income for science/luxury) bonus.