25-06-2003 03:52									#1
	OOC Poll question? Put an end to popups!

Everything in this thread is to be considered OOC.

In game we need to get to the republic, it benefites far outweigh those of Monarchy now, and the differences will continue to grow. So time is of the essence now gentlemen.

In order to go to The Republic, since we are a "Role Play" team, we need a reason or a "Role Play" to do so.

We can debate and talk about that reason, but we need to do it quickly.

We can even debate a new form of goverment, not in the game, but that we would use The Republic to represent that form of government.

One I dea I have is to have a majority of the Govenors declare to toags that they want there to be free elections for 'Senators" (or whatever you want to call them). The Govenors now, would then become Senators. These Senators then have the power to elect an Emperor (or whatever else you want to call it)

This would be a good way to role Play our way into The republic. pehaps someone can think of a good form of goverment that still allows our church to retain much of it's authority. We are still having too much fun with the way the church is now arranged and such.

IDEAS, IDEAS, IDEAS!!!

	25-06-2003 04:31									#2
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I sugest we have a revolution, where each feudal lord declares it´s own fief to be his reign. Then , when the revolution ends 25 years after it (1 turn) We unite Spain as a Confederation of States (I have in my mind the Germanic league of old), where the lords gather after a King dies to vote for a new king to be chosen. Even though the candidate still needs to have royal blood.
Just an idea

	25-06-2003 04:39									#3
	Got spare money?

I honestly think the republic is better for us than monarchy. Perhaps ET is willing to count it out for us.

There are but a few questions:

Are we ready fro the republic? Do all of our cities have temples and will the population stay content after our switch to the republic?

Is the republic a good system to use while we are building up our cities, or will these new cities suffer from the freedom that the republic grants.

What will we do with the nobility? The nobles will not give up their power unless they are forced to do so by military means. In the new system the nobility needs to have its own place. Perhaps in a House of Lords, a second chanber in the parliament, like in England?

Another thing is that the Church has a quite powerful position in Spain. It will not likely give up that position. What will the place of the Church be in a republic society? How will you solve the problem that the Church wont easily give up its power?

I have said in the thread that Civ3 and PTW have a quite simplified version of monarchy as government. In fact monarchy is not just one government type, but a bunch of government types with various rights for the King and other actors. To mention a few:
- Medieval monarchy: absolute rule, but the power of the King depends on the loyalty of his lords. Commonly used in the middle ages.
- Absolute monarchy: The King's power is unlimited. Commonly used after the middle ages until 1789.
- Constitutional Monarchy: The Kings power is limited by the constitution. Common in the 19th century
- Constitutional Monarchy with a parliamentary system: This is a democratic type of monarchy which is used in all of the western European countries that are monarchies.

Especially if we change our government te democracy, I would like to see us adopt the last form of monarchy. Democracy is not bound to a president, so is republic to consuls and senators. We can use a republican form of government, but maintain a monarchy.

These are but some things to think about before you make your decision for Republic or Monarchy. Please answer the question I wrote down here at least for yourself, eventually in public so we can discuss.

Aidun

Last edited by Aidun on 25-06-2003 at 05:11

	25-06-2003 16:41									#4
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I think "republic" is supposed to represent a government a la early Rome or Elizabethan England. Thus I would like a popular revolt that gains support by the nobles because the new King is incompetent and tries to do unpopular things. The nobles easily defeat the King, and they institute one of themselves as a new King but provide for Kings being elected by the nobles. However, then the people, who started the revolt, revolt again demanding political influence. The result is a College of Nobles that elects a King and that must pass a few things by the College of Commons.

	25-06-2003 21:11									#5
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Actually, Republic doesn't look too bad, despite the military problems.

I like Nuc's idea of a Confederation of States ruled by an elected King. I support it.

	26-06-2003 17:38									#6
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I think Civman's idea is quite similar to the english system, which I think is OK. We should however remain a monarchy in a certain way.

I suggest that the lords of the clergy will, like in england, also have a seat in the house of lords. That way, the church remains a large part of its power, which is needed, because in the roleplay the chuch will refuse to step back in power.
We have to debate about the founding of a secular court. I think that the new government can copy large parts of the Law of the Church, because that is a quite standard book of Law.

If you don't agree with this, please propose something else. We are in need for a solution for the position of the Church in the new governmenttype.

BTW, I don't speak here as pope (as you can make up from my name), nor as anyone of my other characters, but as a member of this team. When I am speaking of the Church, I'm looking at it in an objective way like an analist or a journalist.

Aidun

	26-06-2003 21:34									#7
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I support NW's form of governement.

NW: Can you post any more specifics? Maybe submit a draft of something we can vote on? Maybe even a Code of Laws or some sort of Charter.

	27-06-2003 02:06									#8
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Hmm, that plan of NW is very nice too and a bit easier and, I think, in policy terms, more productive. It is also close to our current system. I'm a conservative member of this team, but I have to think about it.

Aidun

Last edited by Aidun on 27-06-2003 at 02:12

	27-06-2003 02:53									#9
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Nuc, please post more about your idea in the Academia Thread.

--Togas

	27-06-2003 21:43									#10
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I added my input in the Academia thread.