25-06-2003 05:11									#1
	Domination vic on all the time? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm playing Civ PTW 1.21f, and I'm having problems with me or the computer getting domination wins early on in the game. I play on huge maps with 16 civs. Two questions:

1)According to the manual, the victory condition is "overwhelmingly dominant". I'm assuming that is in terms of land mass, right? What exactly does that mean? 50% of the land mass or more? Each of the domination wins have been on island worlds with 8-10 island continents.

1)In the most recent game, I had domination turned off, and the puter still won with a Domination win. Has anyone else had this issue? I can post it up, if people want to see the save file. I'm perplexed since I hadn't seen this issue when I played Civ III last fall.

Thanks for any help anyone can give.

	25-06-2003 05:29									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

would you happen to have a screen shot of a game right before the computer won?

	25-06-2003 06:08									#3
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My understanding of teh domination victory is that the winner must have in excess of 65-75% of the entire landmass occupied. I have trouble believing that an AI would be able to achieve a domination victory as they usually stop colonizing once they reach their maximum city limit (32 on a unmodded huge map) It most likely is a bug but if you could post a recent save game so that we can examine the game in greater detail.

	25-06-2003 06:41									#4
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Did it say that it was domination or did it end at year 2050?
There is a tool around here that will calculate how many tiles are required for a domination win.
IIC it is 2/3 of the land, on a huge map that is a lot of tiles.
I have started using 1.21 finally, but I am not sure if I have played all the way to the end since I started using.

	01-07-2003 16:01									#5
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I've noticed this problem since PTW was released.

I contacted Firaxis and they wrote to me that the
victory conditions bug would be fixed.

In the game setup I would check only Space Victory,
but would win Cultural, and Domination victories, etc.

I've since loaded the 1.21f patch, and just this evening,
won a domination victory, even though I hadn't checked that option. The bug hasn't been fixed!

I've uploaded a game save so you can see for yourself.

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Bo...omination-6.SAV

Clearly, I don't have 70% of the land mass, under my control.

This is frustrating because it's no fun playing once you've won the game and I get nowhere close to the meeting victory conditions and I NEVER get to the Space era.

Any suggestions?

	01-07-2003 18:18									#6
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seem like you have a bug there, but it may be realated to your computer and not the game itself. I have not seen it on my computer.

You can always keep on playing after you have achieved a domination win. Maybe after cultural/spaceship/diplomatic win as well, I wouldn't know.

For a domination win you need 2/3 of the landmass and 2/3 of the population.

	01-07-2003 23:03									#7
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quote: Originally posted by bongo seem like you have a bug there, but it may be realated to your computer and not the game itself. I have not seen it on my computer. For a domination win you need 2/3 of the landmass and 2/3 of the population.

Once again, Bongo provides the correct information. Like him, I have not experienced the "bug."

The utility mentioned by vmxa1 is called MapStat. Load a .sav and it calculates the population of each civ and number of tiles each one occupies, both in absolute terms and also as percentages. It also gives the numbers yet to be attained for a domination win.

The original version of the utility does not work for PTW, but a beta (alpha?) version is available at Civ Fanatics.

	02-07-2003 04:36									#8
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Could you help me out.

Load the game I upped and conclude the turn.

If you win on your computer then that casts doubt on the theory that it is my computer and not the program.

If you don't win then I can conclude that it is something on my system.

I ran the MapStat program and it shows that I'm not anywhere close to a Domination victory.

I've got 24.4% of the land mass and 28.6% of the population.

I play at emporer level.

I'm wondering if it has something to do with the Mass Regicide option. I use my Kings to scour the landscape for the goody huts and pile up the Techs. I get the map revealed to me at an alarming rate and cover most of the territory of the other civs before they expand in to it, thus I am able to block some civs from contacting each other.

In the map I loaded, I kept the Celts, English, Romans and Chinese from each other and all of the other Civs until about 600 A.D.

I keep my tech rate low and build my infrastructure and change to republic when others are still researching Alphabet!

I build up my libraries, etc before I slide my tech rate beyond 10%, I build up my cash generating ability and steal techs I don't have.

The result is that I get way ahead of all of the other civs.
Could the program be taking this into account for a domination victory? Take a look at my science advisor.

Why am I winnning so early?

	02-07-2003 20:02									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

Bob:

This is not a legit win. You have certainly encounterd a bug, but whether it is on your computer or on your disc is debatable. Regardless, you should report this to firaxis. And you should also run a scan of your HD just to be sure,

	03-07-2003 04:43									#10
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Bob6 (if I may use a nickname ), I loaded your game, advanced the turn, and won a domination victory, just as you did.

It may be related to the victory conditions you have set up. I have never tried any of the "short game mode" variations, so can't say.

The .bix may have become corrupted, and the game itself may need to be reinstalled to prevent this from happening again.

But these are only guesses.

	03-07-2003 13:20									#11
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Thanks for helping out.

Here's some background.

I didn't choose short game.

Huge Map, Roaming Barbarians, Space Race Victory, Civ Specific Abilities, Preserve Random Seed, Mass Regicide, Victory Point Locations, Capture the Princess, and Allow Cultrual Conversions.

Emporer Level


If you load the game on your computer, it would play under your .bix, wouldn't it?

The only modification I made was to increase the number of cities on a Huge map to modify the corruption setting. That's it.

I've got five other Early Domination victories saved, and a few Cultural victories as well.

I've re-installed the game a few times, and the problem doesn't resolve.

In frustration I decided to continue playing this last game even though it's not supposed to continue keeping score, yet it does. By winning I get a bonus added onto my score and the score keeps getting higher with each turn. So there is something screwy going on.

This bug doesn't occur when I don't play Mass Regicide and Capture the Princess, which is why I suspect that it doesn't have a connection to my increasing the corruption level in the .bix.

I think it has to do with my style of play and getting such a big tech lead so early in the game.

For any who are really curious, pehaps they should emulate the style of play and see if they win the Early Domination.

Thanks for helping out. I suspected it was the program and not my machine.

	03-07-2003 21:59									#12
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I think the mods (and hence the .bix) that are used to start the game are saved with the .sav file, so that, for example, I see your team colors instead of the ones that I use.

By short game conditions, I meant the regicide, princess, and vic point locations. I never use them, so I wonder whether they may play a part in the glitch.

I think you should send the .sav to Firaxis and let them sort it out.

	04-07-2003 00:12									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

You're winning by victory points. The new PTW winning methods were designed for MP play, but you can off course play them in SP as well. Although I haven't played a victory points game, I've seen similar confusion / problems from other posters and the answer has always been victory points. A big part of the problem, it seems, is that the pop-ups announcing your win or loss aren't specific to the new game types -- victory point wins (indeed, AFAIK, all new win modes) are announced as a "Domination" victory even though you clearly haven't met the domination thresholds. Your rapid expansion almost certainly means that you've controlled more victory locations for longer periods of time than any of the AI civs. I haven't downloaded your game, but I'd be willing to bet that the next one you play, with victory locations turned off, won't produce the strange "domination" win.

Catt

	04-07-2003 02:47									#14
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So how many victory points are required for the win? I didn't find much information in the Civilopedia, but I may have looked in the wrong place.

	04-07-2003 06:39									#15
	ahhh Inflate your Upload Space

I notice common threads in what people are saying here. I will also note that I am playing almost exactly the same as Bob here, Huge map, Dom off, Space off, UN off, Raging Barbs, but with VPs on. I would bet that that is the reason.

Here's my (loss):


I'll turn VPs off and see what happens.

Attachment: isabella of the spanish, 1640 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	04-07-2003 08:50									#16
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quote: I've since loaded the 1.21f patch, and just this evening, won a domination victory, even though I hadn't checked that option. The bug hasn't been fixed!

Havn't read the whole thread..

Did you start this game under 1.21? If not then perhaps the info was already in the config file and 1.21 had no influence on it?

	05-07-2003 05:22									#17
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I started the game under 1.21f.

I Think Catt probably nailed it, it has to do with Victory Point, especially, if Hallumj is playing almost the same setup as me.

When I play without Regicide, princess, etc, the game plays like normal.

But my understanding of Victory points was that they had to do with the capture of the capital cities. I had only captured one capital, so I can't see how I could win by victory points. Or are victory points something else?

	05-07-2003 06:22									#18
	Got spare money?

He usually does

-

quote: Or are victory points something else?

AFAIK they are locations scatterred througout the map.

	05-07-2003 22:59									#19
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Look in the Civilopedia under Short Game Modes. Apparently VPs are awarded for capturing and holding the princess and also for capturing VP cities, as indicated by a special icon on the city. It says that in SP the starting positions are VP locations.

I remember from looking at Bob6's .sav file that he had a number of VPs. I think this was shown on the histograph page.

	07-07-2003 14:39									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Bob6301 But my understanding of Victory points was that they had to do with the capture of the capital cities. I had only captured one capital, so I can't see how I could win by victory points. Or are victory points something else?

Unless you are playing on a custom map with set locations, the VP locations will be at the starting locations for each Civ (usualy their capital city). Each turn, you get a certain amount of points per VP you control (you have to actualy have a city on the location I think).

The way you get points then is not by GETTING VP locations, but rather by HOLDING them, if that makes any sense. So if you had only captured one capital, then you'd be gaining TWICE as much points than everyone else, which would put you in a bit of a lead.

The default victory limit is 10,000 points, but you can change that in the Player Setup window in the option box (where the victory condition buttons and so forth are). Theres a button at the end of all that that opens up a little window. You can change the ending date for normal games there as well. Also, I think you can check how many victory points you have in the Histograph.

--

Oh and by the way, first post here on Apolyton.

	07-07-2003 23:57									#21
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Welcome Danarchy. Glad to have you aboard.

	08-07-2003 00:34									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Danarchy Oh and by the way, first post here on Apolyton.

Here's hoping for many more of such high quality!

	08-07-2003 02:09									#23
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Thanks guys.