25-06-2003 08:27									#1
	Rome backstabers? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Alright im not an awesome civ 3 player im only 12 yrs old. I just started playing regeant and need some advice. I am Egypt and it is the year 1250AD. I am the most powerful civ on my continent. The continent is shaped like a crescent i own the top half Rome owns the small middle and Persia owns the bottom fourth. Rome and i have a right of passage. Lately they have been sending tons and tons of legionaries up through my empire. Am i just parenoid or are they going to backstab me?

	25-06-2003 08:28									#2
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something new. Persia has declared war on me

	25-06-2003 09:24									#3
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Very likely. Is there any open spaces they could be heading towards? Do they have a city in your area?
I am very reticentto sign RoP unless I need it.
Now that Persia has declared, get Rome to join your side, so you do not have a tag team.
I would say ypu are off and running, lots of players never get off warlord.

	25-06-2003 10:36									#4
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Good to see the next generation of Civ players.

I didn't start playing until I was 15 :/

	25-06-2003 10:48									#5
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I was like 13 when I lost my civirginity

	25-06-2003 11:11									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I was like 13 when I lost my civirginity

That's not a pretty image Zen.

	25-06-2003 11:59									#7
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quote: Originally posted by dexters That's not a pretty image Zen.

Maybe not, but it was a 'turnig point' in his life.

	25-06-2003 12:32									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage Maybe not, but it was a 'turnig point' in his life.

And not just mine apparently...

	25-06-2003 14:20									#9
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Possibly, and possibly they are just sending troops to go bash on another civ. Check your military strength, are you weak compared to them? If so, you're almost certainly in for a nice suprise.

	25-06-2003 14:39									#10
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If they are at war with Persia then that's the reason for the troop movements. I've had civs duke it out in my territory while at peace with me.

It's pretty funny, watching my workers mine and irrigate while swordsmen and horseman are clashing a few squares away. As long as I'm relatively powerful, they won't mess with me.

But still, the AI has that nasty habit of not respecting your border when it needs to get somewhere else. Case in point: if they see some empty space they might send a settler team. Want an easy way to get them to declare war and not tarnish your reputation? Ask them to leave your territory! They'll usually declare war

	25-06-2003 16:49									#11
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I would assume they are marching towards an enemy other than you. But all of AI are backstabbers to one extent or another. The Germans are the civ I've had the least trouble with, they've never backstabbed me yet.

	25-06-2003 17:42									#12
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Hmm, they backstabbed me very often in early ages. So watch your back. And as vmxa1 already said, get them to your side fighting those pesky Persians...

	25-06-2003 18:14									#13
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I've found that if I can feed them targets to wage war against they make loyal little minions.

	25-06-2003 21:56									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen If they are at war with Persia then that's the reason for the troop movements. I've had civs duke it out in my territory while at peace with me. It's pretty funny, watching my workers mine and irrigate while swordsmen and horseman are clashing a few squares away. As long as I'm relatively powerful, they won't mess with me. But still, the AI has that nasty habit of not respecting your border when it needs to get somewhere else. Case in point: if they see some empty space they might send a settler team. Want an easy way to get them to declare war and not tarnish your reputation? Ask them to leave your territory! They'll usually declare war

I've had that happen more than a few times too. But it's better to have them warring with each other on your territory than being at war with them both.

As to what the Romans are doing...handle them with care. The high aggression civs will have a tendency to backstab you for no reason (other than their own) sometimes. Be especially wary of signing ROPs with them unless it's necessary. If you leave even one city undefended than they will often ignore the ROP and take the city.

	25-06-2003 22:00									#15
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It would seem they are not marching towards and enemy as he discribed the lay out as him being on one end. Then Rome and to the other end Persia or whom ever it was. If that is so there should not be anyone in that direction, except him, not a good sign.
If they are not ferrying a settler, I would mass troops and ask them to leave. This allows you to get in the firzt whack.

	25-06-2003 22:52									#16
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Feels like a backstab coming on to me.

Ally with Rome against Persia, and once they have burned out on each other a bit, take'em both out.

Are you in contact with any other AI civs yet? If not, try to destroy Rome and Persia before contact.

	25-06-2003 22:56									#17
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Tough call. But doesn't look good. How does Caesar feel about you? Romans do back stab at Regent (the level I play, at some significant years older than you). And with a right of passage it is a lot harder to tell when because they will march right past border towns to your core (least defended) cities and attack without warning.

A couple of things to try/to look at. Are they at war with Persia? And, is there a logical route through your territory toward Persia? (Doesn't sound like it) If they are not at war with Persia - but it makes sense for them to attack them by way of your territory - without actually closing the deal, see what it takes to get them to join in an alliance against Persia. If your Advisor tells you they won't take it, or the price very very high, I would be wary, war is probably coming (if the alliance comes cheaply, by all means take it). If there is no good reason for them to be wandering through your territory, well, war is probably coming soon in that case too.

Mass troops. Hide your workers. Kick them in the teeth.

	25-06-2003 23:07									#18
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I think Theseus had a good idea. If you think Rome is about to attack you I'd do my best to get into an alliance with the Romans.

Or you could just wait and hope they're just passing through. But if I were you I'd try to get on Rome's good side.

BigD

	26-06-2003 12:41									#19
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Hope is for the foolish!

Get an alliance with Rome against Persia. If they refuse to ally with you or they don't turn back then the backstab is about to occur. You can't demand them to leave because of the Rop so either surround the invaders or build up your defenses quickly.

	26-06-2003 13:02									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber Hope is for the foolish! Get an alliance with Rome against Persia. If they refuse to ally with you or they don't turn back then the backstab is about to occur. You can't demand them to leave because of the Rop so either surround the invaders or build up your defenses quickly.

or quickly signup GPT deals with the Roman. Buy World Maps, Techs from them by paying GPT. They will generally be reluctant to go to War with you if you are going to pay them GPT. And if they do declare War, you get free World Maps & Techs.

	26-06-2003 21:06									#21
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Yes I had realized after my post that you have an RoP and can not demand they leave. I would then see if I have a city a bit out of reach from the invaders and empty it. If they head for it, time for a deal with Persia.
Sign it and launch an all out attack on Rome.
You may delay the atack if you can get the incursion surrounded. This will force their hand. Me I want the first crack if I can not find a way to get them to initiate the war that will be painless. IOW I am not willing to let them get in a good shot for the priviledge of not starting the war.

	26-06-2003 22:33									#22
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Has anyone had a RoP rape done against them? I haven't, that's why I don't suspect they'd do it.

	26-06-2003 22:39									#23
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Sure have, I have seen several rape attempts as well.
That is where they sent in a bunch of units, with the intend to start a war. I forstall it by sending a large force to get in their path and sign a few MPP's. They often turn around.

	26-06-2003 23:35									#24
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quote: Has anyone had a RoP rape done against them? I haven't, that's why I don't suspect they'd do it.

Yep. But not in a long while. And not since my play has become far more aggressive. Looking at it later it just looked to be an AI deciding I was weak militarily and taking advantage.

	26-06-2003 23:52									#25
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Yes it is much more likely in a game that you are trying to play as a builder.

	27-06-2003 00:11									#26
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yes it is much more likely in a game that you are trying to play as a builder.

No wonder that never happens to me

	27-06-2003 02:11									#27
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It is rare under any circumstances. I rarely sign RoP's, but I have played all types of civ games in every way I can think of. Just too boring to always war or alway build, but I have tried both a few times.

	27-06-2003 03:48									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Has anyone had a RoP rape done against them? I haven't, that's why I don't suspect they'd do it.

It has happened to me. It was early in the game and I had purposely signed ROPs with everyone to keep them from messing with me while building my military up. I had a strong military, but the English (who I had cut off from expansion and had a weak military) decided to send their one lone warrior in my territory after the one city I had accidentally left without a defender. The nice thing was that I had just changed governments out of Despotism. Hello perfectly timed Golden Age. Goodbye Lizzie!

	27-06-2003 18:28									#29
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Only had one, in which I lost 20-25 captured workers. It was no big deal as I won by domination a couple of turns later...It was really tempting to play on just to get revenge but I started a new game instead.

As for the romans...smells like a backstab coming your way. Prepare for War, get your workers out of the way, protect important cities, fortify troops in high ground and choke points but most important: Build units(and walls where needed)

	28-06-2003 04:57									#30
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Hey it's me! You know, the one who started the thread, Any way Rome tried to backstab me they went for my capitol(that's never happened) Thank god for horsemen! I had huge hoards of them After taking your advice! I killed the intruders and sent off after Rome! Apparently the legionaries were their only military because it did not take long before i withered them down to one city, Antium. They wanted peace so i gave it to them.....But for their actions against me i got one tech, 6 workers, and ten cities. Just to make sure they don't try that again i sorounded their border with horsemen. They now do almost anything i tell them. This is the life! As for persia, They have five cities left and basically no military left.

On a totally different note: Does anyone play heroes of might and magic 3? It's awesome!

Thanks for all the help.