25-06-2003 12:09									#1
	Trainers dont work Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Neither Powerbar or Cybermans trainer work for me. I have PTW 121f. I made sure to get the versions of the trainers that were for my versions of the game. What could be the problem?

	25-06-2003 17:56									#2
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If someone answers this can they also tell me what a trainer is?

	25-06-2003 18:30									#3
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quote: Originally posted by mimi If someone answers this can they also tell me what a trainer is?

hi ,

a cheat that allows you to train with high level of money and so , ......

the best way to train is to play a couple times the tutorial and to play the game itself , ...... nothing can beat that , ....

have a great day

	26-06-2003 02:15									#4
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Or you can simply create a scenario in which you start out having your chosen civ have ALL attributes and being completely surrounded with bonus tiles and resources.

	26-06-2003 02:27									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't see any benefit from using trainers aside from training you into bad habits and strategies you can never really use under normal starting conditions.

They are just euphemisms for gameshark style hacks

	26-06-2003 12:15									#6
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Call them what they are: Cheat programs. The problem is that you are only cheating yourself. Start a game on chieftain with the tutorial mode on, you will get the hang of it in no time.

	26-06-2003 22:14									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

hi ,

not to mention that some even have spyware embedded in them , ......

why risk getting problems when there is a great editor in ptw , .....

have a nice day

	29-06-2003 17:44									#9
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Sorry, I forgot computer games were such serious business.

	29-06-2003 20:21									#10
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It's cool, arslan...

What would you like to learn? Rather than a trainer, consider posting a save here or in the Strat forum, and people will be glad to advise.

Last edited by Theseus on 29-06-2003 at 20:49

	29-06-2003 20:44									#11
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Trainers are good for one thing:
Debuging scenrios (as long as you don't intend to debug balance issues ).

	29-06-2003 20:46									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos Trainers are good for one thing: Debuging scenrios (as long as you don't intend to debug balance issues ).

hi ,

why use a trainer if Gramphos tool is around , .....

have a nice day

	30-06-2003 04:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber Start a game on chieftain with the tutorial mode on, you will get the hang of it in no time.

The best trainer of all...Yourself! The game is not hard to pick up and chieftain forgives many mistakes. Good Luck!

	01-07-2003 09:32									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus It's cool, arslan... What would you like to learn? Rather than a trainer, consider posting a save here or in the Strat forum, and people will be glad to advise.

My biggest problem is always money. I almost invariably get declared war on by somebody in the very early stages of the game. I start pumping out the best units I have to try and fend off the onslaught but I always run out of money, while the AI seems to have limitless funds. Ive been playing on Warlord. How do you make money "legally"? Can it really be cheating if your opponent is just a string of ones and zeros?

	01-07-2003 09:43									#15
	Got spare money?

Best way to increase revenue is to build roads and marketplaces. Roads increase the commerce of the tile by 1. I think your problem is that you are not changing the sliders enough. Remember that republic does not have any military support while Despotism and Monarchy allow maintenance free units. Please post saved game for further comment.

	01-07-2003 09:46									#16
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quote: Originally posted by arslankhan My biggest problem is always money. I almost invariably get declared war on by somebody in the very early stages of the game. I start pumping out the best units I have to try and fend off the onslaught but I always run out of money, while the AI seems to have limitless funds. Ive been playing on Warlord. How do you make money "legally"? Can it really be cheating if your opponent is just a string of ones and zeros?

That's where the slider comes into play. If you find yourself running negative gpt then bump the science down a notch. Another little trick to raise money is when you have a 40 turn tech research no matter what the percentage is (i.e. you're trying to research writing before anyone else has it), bump the slider down to 10%. You still have the maximum 40 turn research rate, but you're gaining all that gold that would otherwise be wasted.

In the very early stages of the game you'll be in despotism which has a unit support of 4 per city. How many cities do you usually have when a rival civ declares war on you? If you produce more units then your free unit support then that will also dry out your gold resources. A simple way to combat that is build more cities...even camps if you have to...to keep all your units free.

Another thing is your road network. Since roads provide commerce, road all the tiles that are being worked as soon as possible. Try and road river tiles as they will provide an extra commerce for essentially the same tile. And finally for a real commerce boost...beeline for the republic and switch over.

I'd really recommend Theseus' idea and post a save in the strat forum with a request for help. People will look at it and give you advice based on that game instead of generic advice like my post.

Hope that helps.

	01-07-2003 22:55									#17
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quote: Originally posted by arslankhan My biggest problem is always money. I almost invariably get declared war on by somebody in the very early stages of the game. I start pumping out the best units I have to try and fend off the onslaught but I always run out of money, while the AI seems to have limitless funds. Ive been playing on Warlord. How do you make money "legally"? Can it really be cheating if your opponent is just a string of ones and zeros?

hi ,

try to milk barb's , get to republic asap , .....

if you where to attach a couple saves we might be able to help you more , .....

dont worry , you shall learn , we all had to

have a nice day

	02-07-2003 04:25									#18
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Arslan, trust me, post a save. People around here DO NOT criticize, but rather teach.

	02-07-2003 09:03									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ok I'll start a new one and save it as soon as I start running out of money.

	02-07-2003 09:18									#20
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quote: Originally posted by arslankhan Ok I'll start a new one and save it as soon as I start running out of money.

hi ,

post several saves , post four or five , this way we can see what happens , .....

have a nice day

	02-07-2003 09:41									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

panag, slow down.

I'd like to try helping with a game in progress... for instance, arslan, if you post a save from around 1000BC (and can refrain from playing further for a little bit), we can give you advice in a current game, which you can use on the spot. Then, x turns later, rinse and repeat.

If you've been checking things out here some, that's what Konquest02 did, and the rapid skill improvement results were, let us say, impressive.

	02-07-2003 10:12									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus panag, slow down. I'd like to try helping with a game in progress... for instance, arslan, if you post a save from around 1000BC (and can refrain from playing further for a little bit), we can give you advice in a current game, which you can use on the spot. Then, x turns later, rinse and repeat. If you've been checking things out here some, that's what Konquest02 did, and the rapid skill improvement results were, let us say, impressive.

hi ,

" slow down " , yet you propose the same thing , .....

its up to him , if he feels he is running out of money around 1500 bc he should also post , ....

we should let him play first and then try to see the complete picture , ......

have a nice day

	02-07-2003 11:39									#23
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Heres the save, its from 890 A.D. I came close to going completely broke several times but what helped me turn the corner was luckily getting the Great Library and Rhothaerills tip about the sliders. The sliders were the key because Ive gotten the GL before and still ended up broke. The trickle of extra money kept me on life support during an eternal war against the Arabs and I seem to have turned the tide against them. Unfortunately the Ottomans and the Celts piled on too so this might be a short lived breathing space. Im at war with 3 Civs and if I recall correctly Im down to 35 bucks. Usually by this time Im dead so theres been some progress at least. From here, how can I increase my "revenue stream"?

Attachment: xcaesar of the romans, 890 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	02-07-2003 11:48									#24
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quote: Originally posted by arslankhan Heres the save, its from 890 A.D. I came close to going completely broke several times but what helped me turn the corner was luckily getting the Great Library and Rhothaerills tip about the sliders. The sliders were the key because Ive gotten the GL before and still ended up broke. The trickle of extra money kept me on life support during an eternal war against the Arabs and I seem to have turned the tide against them. Unfortunately the Ottomans and the Celts piled on too so this might be a short lived breathing space. Im at war with 3 Civs and if I recall correctly Im down to 35 bucks. Usually by this time Im dead so theres been some progress at least. From here, how can I increase my "revenue stream"?

hi ,

indeed the sliders are intresting to play with , set " wait at the end of turn " and move it each turn , normally towrds the last couple of turns before a new tech you can save large amounts , ......

now lets all look at the save and see what we can do to help

have a nice day

	02-07-2003 19:52									#25
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Arslan:

I have reviewed your saved game and I feel your pain.

lets start with a few basic pointers.

1) workers are good
2) Roads networks should be more than linking up your cities.
3) Expansion is a must, unless you are challanging yourself such as in a 5CC or OCC.
4) Military units belong on the front line not encircling your capital.
5) Build embassies, and build cities on the coast for exploration purposes, trade maps freely unless you have a teriitory you wish to protect from the other civ's

Now lets discuss the importance of diplomacy. It is important to limit the amount of Civ's you are at war with at one time even the best empires are threatened with a two front war, you have a 4 front war.

Remember that the City is the basic unit of power and that the worker is the basic unit of improving the city.

There are many more points that could be given if provided with an earlier save, like around 500 BC

Also please address a couple of questions

1) Did the Ai's hem you in or did the barbarians limit your expansion? looks like you had some territory to expand to so why did you fail to do so (be aggressive in the expansion phase esp on low levels)
2) What was the reason for lack of exploration? You need to at least obtain other world maps if you are cut off from sending units to expand (the more land you know about the higher your research)
3) Are you still in depotism? (I admit I didn't check) and have you had your GA yet?

Your basic problems are that you are
1) Under developed
2) Know little of your surroundings
3) Are technology inferior to other civs

	02-07-2003 23:36									#26
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Madbomber, thanks for the advice:

1. WORKERS:
I tend to automate the workers and focus on the war that gets declared on me almost immediately.

2.EXPANSION:
In this particular game and indeed in most others, I have precious little time or resources to devote to settlers in the opening stages of the game because I have to build military units to defend myself. The AI however continues expanding effortlessly till eventually Im surrounded and the only way for me to expand is to conquer the enemy cities. Ive done it, but its very difficult when in a multi front war.

3. DIPLOMACY:
Im never very diplomatic and hardly agree to anything the AI proposes, which is probably why the AI declares war on me right away. But it seems that the AI already has the upper hand and anything I agree to will only give it more of an advantage. I stopped building embassies because I would get bombarded with messages that civ A declared war on civ B, and civ C is now at peace with civ D etc. It would take forever for my turn to come and the whole game would just grind to a halt.

No doubt the above reads like what NOT to do if you want to have a successfull game...

edit=== on a positive note, playing without trainers Ive had to ficus more on the units differents strengths and weakness, instead of just cranking out the strongest one. For instance I now love the catapult, a unit I used to ignore completely.

Last edited by arslankhan on 02-07-2003 at 23:45

	03-07-2003 05:47									#27
	Got spare money?

arslan:

I haven't had a chance to look at the save, but would also suggest posting one from waaaay earlier, like 1000BC or 500BC.

Have you seen the Strat forum yet? I'd like to suggest this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59216

And take a look at the first recommended read, "Winning Early."

	03-07-2003 08:17									#28
	Got spare money?

Arslan, I just took a look at the save and I have to echo all of Mad Bomber's points. I'd particularly stress early expansion though. In the early stages the AI is not going to have enough units to pose too serious a threat so you can often get by on average military output. If you need some of your cities for military production then do so, but still leave at least one or two of your higher food/production cities as a "settler pump" (meaning all it produces are settlers...cities with flood plains, cattle or wheat in their radius are great for that). You have to have more cities if you want to be able to produce as many units as you have. 50+ units for four cities in a monarchy means you're losing 40+ gpt.

I'd definitely read through the various threads Theseus linked you to. They're good for strategy thoughts. I wish it had been up when I started frequenting 'Poly so I didn't have to search them all out myself. "Winning Early" is a great one, and I'd also highly recommend "Appropriate City Placement". By 890ad you quite honestly could have place 15-20 cities in the area covered by your current map and have a very productive empire. I'm essentially parroting Theseus, but definitely read through those strategy threads.

Good luck and happy civving.

	03-07-2003 16:11									#29
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I'll be referring to Theseus' thread alot. Thanks for the tips everybody

	04-07-2003 03:39									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

In addition to the thread Rhothaerill recommended, I'll add a few from Theseus's treasure trove

Cracker's "Improving your Opening Play Skills"
*Everything you need to know (and more) on worker improvements

Vel's "Size Does Matter!"
* An insiteful discussion on city size

Dr Fell's "Super Expansion Strategy....."
* Guaranteed to out-expand all AI's

Aeson's
"The Settler/Defender "Factory""
"Scouting"
"Psychotic Wonder Building"