25-06-2003 18:17									#1
	Things like this ALMOST make me believe in the death penalty-discusting beyond belief Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/19/t...d.ap/index.html








Teen's brutal beating death called 'something out of the Dark Ages'

Dawn Sweeney, mother of the victim: "Jason came from a home that none of them had."


PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) -- Jason Sweeney had money in his pocket and plans to see his teenage sweetheart when he headed out the door on the last Friday in May.

For a 16-year-old from a blue-collar section of Philadelphia, the end of the work week couldn't have seemed much brighter. But he never made it back home that night.

According to police, Sweeney's girlfriend lured him to a vacant gravel path by the Delaware River where three teenage boys were waiting. They attacked Sweeney with a hammer and hatchet until his heart stopped, authorities said.

The four teens -- after a group hug -- then robbed the victim, dividing up the $500 that Sweeney had earned at his construction job and went on a drug binge, police said.

"We took Sweeney's wallet and split up the money, and we partied beyond redemption," Dominic Coia, 18, told detectives, according to a transcript of his June 3 confession.

Coia, his younger brother, Nicholas, 16, and Sweeney's friend, Edward "Eddie" Batzig Jr., 16, are charged with first-degree murder and could face the death penalty if convicted. Sweeney's girlfriend, Justina Morley, 15, is also charged with murder but is too young to be executed.

The brutal nature of the crime stunned even the veteran city judge assigned to Tuesday's preliminary hearing.

"This is something out of the Dark Ages," Judge Seamus McCaffery said in upholding the murder charges against the four. "I'm not so sure we can call ourselves a civilized society when stuff like this happens."


A makeshift memorial stands Wednesday near the site where Jason Sweeney was beaten to death in the Fishtown area of Philadelphia.
In the hours before the slaying, as Sweeney changed out of his work clothes and showered at his family's cozy brick rowhouse in Fishtown, the defendants met nearby in Batzig's basement.

"We must have listened to 'Helter Skelter' about 42 times," Dominic Coia told police, referring to the Beatles song that also fascinated serial killer Charles Manson.

In 1969, Manson and his followers killed nine people in the Los Angeles area in what prosecutors said was an attempt to start a race war that Manson believed was prophesied in "Helter Skelter."

Sweeney's mother, Dawn, works as a bank teller while her husband, Paul, who grew up in Fishtown, runs a small construction company. Their son had been working there after dropping out of 10th grade, with plans to join the Navy when he turned 17 next month.

Jason had spent his 16th birthday with Batzig at Dawn Sweeney's parents' house in Florida. Afterward, Dawn Sweeney told her son to end the friendship. She thought Batzig was heading down the wrong path, she said.

"Jason came from a home that none of them had," Dawn Sweeney said Wednesday about her son's alleged assailants. "We love our kids and our kids love us. We enjoy spending time together."

The Coias had been raised by their father since their mother left when they were young, said defense lawyer Charles Mirarchi III, who hopes to negotiate a plea for Nicholas, his client. Lee Mandell, a lawyer for Dominic Coia, said he will try to have his client's confession suppressed.

All four defendants are charged as adults, but defense lawyer William Brennan hopes to have Morley's case moved to juvenile court. She has a history of depression and had been on medication for about a year, Brennan said.

In his police statement, Batzig said he struck his friend in the head with the hatchet four or five times, as hard as he could. Philadelphia Medical Examiner Ian Hood testified that the attackers broke all but one of the bones in Sweeney's face.

After the murder, Dominic Coia told police that the group bought heroin, cocaine and the tranquilizer Xanax with the victim's money, according to his police statement.

Melissa Sweeney, the dead teen's 15-year-old sister, said juvenile crime was not unique to places like Fishtown.

"Everywhere you go, you find kids like this," she said Wednesday as she and her mother played a board game in their living room. "It's just a question of how much the neighborhood can hide the bad."

	25-06-2003 19:08									#2
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quote: "We must have listened to 'Helter Skelter' about 42 times," Dominic Coia told police, referring to the Beatles song that also fascinated serial killer Charles Manson.

I like that song too.

Those kids are absolute evil. Fry them till their blood boils, their skin blisters and their eyeballs melt: it's the only civilised way to respond to this attack on the honest decency of us all.

	25-06-2003 19:15									#3
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Eventually, you'll swing around to supporting the death penalty.
The most violently animated arguments my father and I had were over the death penalty. I was against.
No more.

	25-06-2003 19:17									#4
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"I'd rather see 10,000 criminals walk free then 1 innocent man"-Some famous guy

Till humans have omniscience, I'll never support the death penalty-life imprisonment: yes, death penalty, never. Besides the fact there is always a margin of errror, and we can NEVER have any error in something so grave, killing is wrong, REGARDLESS of the reason. The greatest crime someone cam commit is taking a human life, how does the fact that they do that, justify us doing the same to them?

	25-06-2003 19:18									#5
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Horrendous... reminds me of the film "Bully," which I believe was based on a true story, too.

For all the talk about violent video games, heavy metal and movies, it seems the Beatles lead more people to kill than anything else! Burn them! Boo!

	25-06-2003 19:19									#6
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"Sweeney's girlfriend lured him"

the *****! And why is she getting the special treatment?

They should be locked up forever.

Never stoop to their level Slow.

	25-06-2003 19:21									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen "I'd rather see 10,000 criminals walk free then 1 innocent man"-Some famous guy Till humans have omniscience, I'll never support the death penalty-life imprisonment: yes, death penalty, never. Besides the fact there is always a margin of errror, and we can NEVER have any error in something so grave, killing is wrong, REGARDLESS of the reason. The greatest crime someone cam commit is taking a human life, how does the fact that they do that, justify us doing the same to them?

I am vastly opposed to the death penalty, but I do believe that there may indeed be individuals who pose such a threat to others and society that the only way of protecting people is to remove that person from the world. I think John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy and the like are the most suitable candidates.

However, the DP should never, ever be about revenge. It is not the state's business to avenge anyone, but to protect people as best as possible. I agree that the DP sends a bad message overall, so would only advocate its use in the most extreme, heinous of instances.

	25-06-2003 19:23									#8
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There is nothing more dangerous in the world than a murderer serving a life sentence.
That's bottom-line fact.

	25-06-2003 19:26									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov However, the DP should never, ever be about revenge. It is not the state's business to avenge anyone, but to protect people as best as possible. I agree that the DP sends a bad message overall, so would only advocate its use in the most extreme, heinous of instances.

Often, thats EXACTLY what it is, which is another reasonw hy its wrong.

	25-06-2003 19:31									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Often, thats EXACTLY what it is, which is another reasonw hy its wrong.

It is wrong in such incidents, I agree. But that doesn't mean it is always wrong. I am hard pressed to think of a good reason why we shouldn't have executed Gacy. He murdered 33 people, buried them under his house, showed no remorse, no inkling that he would ever stop. He was undeniably guilty, undeniably psychotic and was an ongoing threat. I think the case is strong that the DP was not only best for society, but best for Gacy.

	25-06-2003 19:35									#11
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I still don't agree with the death penalty. Rather, I wish we could take all the people who aren't prepared to live by the same rules as most of us, like these scum, and put them on another planet and leave them. No help, no technology, nothing and let them make their own way.

As we can't do that yet a barren lump of rock somewhere just north of Antarctica would be a good substitute.

	25-06-2003 19:37									#12
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand There is nothing more dangerous in the world than a murderer serving a life sentence. That's bottom-line fact.

Holy exaggeration Batman!

That's taking hyperbole to rather absurd lengths IMHO.

I would have thought that a murderer who hasn't been caught yet would be at least a tiny bit more dangerous.

	25-06-2003 19:39									#13
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Read Pappalion, Cerberus.
That is an option I'd go for anytime.

	25-06-2003 19:39									#14
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV I still don't agree with the death penalty. Rather, I wish we could take all the people who aren't prepared to live by the same rules as most of us, like these scum, and put them on another planet and leave them. No help, no technology, nothing and let them make their own way. As we can't do that yet a barren lump of rock somewhere just north of Antarctica would be a good substitute.

Isn't this what Australia is for?

	25-06-2003 19:43									#15
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My roommate has suggested "Parts Island."

Basically, the worst repeat violent offenders get shipped off to a remote island somewhere that is off limits to anyone else. They are free to do as they please. However, whenever someone is in vital need of an organ transplant and their aren't available donors, the criminals are "harvested."

I pointed out the problem of this, which is obvious--HIV and other diseases will be rampant on the island, rendering their organs largely unusable. This would, however, take care of the criminals as well, and their deaths could not be directly attributable to the state.

	25-06-2003 19:44									#16
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Poet, a killer uncaptured can try to vanish.
What can a killer locked up for life try to do?
What's his motive for becoming a "good guy" ?

Do some light reading on Officer Aubrey Hawkins, and the Texas 7.

	25-06-2003 19:45									#17
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Isn't this what Australia is for?

Oh my God...I was going to post the exact same thing, word for word!

	25-06-2003 19:47									#18
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yeah that **** is all over the news here in philly... more greatness from the city of brotherly love...

	25-06-2003 19:53									#19
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The four teens -- after a group hug -- then robbed the victim, dividing up the $500 that Sweeney had earned at his construction job and went on a drug binge, police said.

Oh well. These people aren't so bad.

	25-06-2003 19:54									#20
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and it also should be noted that these were all white people up in the fishtown section of the near north-east. the racist and partisan democrat mayor has largely left these white and puerto rican areas of the near north-east filled with crime. the fact that they had largely voted for a republican last mayoral election didn't help the fishtown section

	25-06-2003 19:56									#21
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Sloww: What's the motive, or indeed opportunity, for an executed criminal to become a 'good guy'? There is none. At least a incarcerated criminal has the opportunity to rehabilitate. Admittedly, many of them would simply not be able to do so. That's fine with me, if they want to stay crazy and dangerous then they can rot in that cell for all I care.
I simply don't see an advantage to the death penalty that lifetime imprisonment (in a "life MEANS life" kind of way) doesn't also achieve. The benefit to the imprisonment is that the criminal has a) the potential, however slim, to rehabilitate and b) the chance to be acquited if their innocence is ever proven.
It seems like a no-brainer to me ... but I don't really see a need to argue over it. I doubt anybody is likely to change anyone else's mind.

Asher:

	25-06-2003 19:59									#22
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Hang em high.

	25-06-2003 19:59									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer and it also should be noted that these were all white people up in the fishtown section of the near north-east. the racist and partisan democrat mayor has largely left these white and puerto rican areas of the near north-east filled with crime. the fact that they had largely voted for a republican last mayoral election didn't help the fishtown section

"Dominic Coia, 18, told detectives, according to a transcript of his June 3 confession.

Coia, his younger brother, Nicholas, 16"

Sounds like two of the culprits were Puerto Rican, not white. What difference does it make what their race was?

This was a blue-collar part of town. Should we point out the culprits were all blue-collar then?

	25-06-2003 20:00									#24
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FrustratedPoet,

can a cold blood murderor be rehabilitated though? yeah you can rehabilitate a mugger or a drug dealer or a car jacker... but a murderor?

	25-06-2003 20:03									#25
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my bad

Last edited by Albert Speer on 25-06-2003 at 20:08

	25-06-2003 20:07									#26
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Boris:

you're missing my point... i was saying that this might never had happened had the mayor actually done anything to help this area in philly... not only was police coverage reduced in the near-northeast but this area did not benefit at all from the neighbourhood rehabilitation program that cleaned up urban blight and brought jobs to more solidly democrat areas of philly.

and by the way, the Coias may be rican but they don't look like it to me.

	25-06-2003 20:09									#27
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^ If you believe in free will, then you have to believe that anyone can choose to change, even a cold-blooded murderer.

I believe in free will, therefore I do not believe that we have the right to kill anyone, and thus forever deny them the possibility that they may, one day, even if it's not for 30 years, choose to change for the better. Life imprisonment will do.

	25-06-2003 20:14									#28
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These people obviously have some kinda mental condition and need help, and if that fails, locking up for life.

I like Helter Skelter

	25-06-2003 20:15									#29
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The problem with incarcerating hard core murderers for life, is that you don't have a lot of additional options to punish them. With no fear of punishment there is no deterent for the to kill a guard or another prisoner. Killings in prison are not a rare event. Fry them.

	25-06-2003 20:16									#30
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Exactly, RAH. Thank you.