26-06-2003 02:02									#1
	random questions Remove this text

so i bought ron and decided to jump into multiplayer with a friend of similiarly limited experience. i had a couple of questions from the first two games i played.

background: i'm a mean aoe2/aom player, and the friend isn't bad either. we play 1v1 on small random maps.

1. is 5-6 cities standard on this map size?

2. how should i set them up? like, how many cities that actually produce stuff, and what to do with those that don't?

3. how many unit production centres (ie. castle+stable+siege+barracks)? will just one near the centre of the map do? will a single castle and a few units be enough for other parts of the map (for 3 castles in total)?

4. unit classifications - light, heavy, archers. what are they or rather what is each class's purpose, and do the classes apply to both cavalry and infantry? which counters which? how should armies be composed?

5. how do i use spies and generals?

6. how do i organise armies? i usually set them up nicely with infantry and cavalry of all typed with control groups and everything, but after i use it to attack and am building more units to send into battle/newly captured city my army loses all organisation and becomes a big bunch of units with no control groups and no definite unit ratio.

7. which wonders (apart from statue of liberty of course) should i make sure i build?

8. does anyone ever actually use upgraded granaries etc? also, how do i get oil from offshore fields?

thanks alot for your help...

	26-06-2003 04:14									#2
	Re: random questions Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I can't tell you what the optimum for any of these is, but I'm more than happy to tell you what has worked for me.

quote: Originally posted by LordShiva 1. is 5-6 cities standard on this map size?

I don't think you could really say there's a standard. 4 is usually sufficient for me to have a throbbing economy. I play fairly defensively, so I like them all close together (later, when I'm ready to start fighting, I might ad some far flung outposts). Trial and error is your best bet. In the end, you should go for what suits your style of play, not what someone else says is optimum.

quote: 2. how should i set them up? like, how many cities that actually produce stuff, and what to do with those that don't?

It is quite advisable to split your resource gathering between multiple cities. Nothing sucks more than having your only metal or timber city taken from you. As for outbuildings, every city should have a temple,as they make the city much harder to take, as well as pushing the borders out. I put amarket in every city as well, though that is debateable, especially if you play a Nation like the Incas or the British who have big gold boni. You should have a minimum of 4 universities (I usually have 5). A second library is also good policy as well. The resource modifier buildings should be in any city that gathers said resource.

quote: 3. how many unit production centres (ie. castle+stable+siege+barracks)? will just one near the centre of the map do? will a single castle and a few units be enough for other parts of the map (for 3 castles in total)?

I usually have two military production centers: An initial one by my first dense cluster of cities, and a second, later one from one of my far flung outposts mentioned above. Each center consist of two each of stables and barracks and one factory. I'll also build two airbases in each of these, plus another one or two elsewhere for maximum coverage. As for the castle, I usually only produce 5-6 generals, and few if any spies, so I usually have just one, centrally located for defense.

quote: 4. unit classifications - light, heavy, archers. what are they or rather what is each class's purpose, and do the classes apply to both cavalry and infantry? which counters which? how should armies be composed?

The general rule of thumb is infantry beats Cavalry, Cavalry beats archers, and archers beat infantry. There is a lot more to it, of course, so check the mouseover help for more detail. Composition is up to you. I usually try to have a bit of everything, but since I am a Bantu player, I have a lot more pop cap room than other nations. Other people definitely approach this question differently, so I will let them speak for themselves.

quote: 5. how do i use spies and generals?

Generals should be in with you army. I usually go with 2 per army. If you select any group of unit which included a general, you will see special commands in the command box. Just click the one you want to use. I primarily use Fortify, with the key being that the command is cancelled for a unit as soon as you issue any new commands to that unit.

quote: 6. how do i organise armies? i usually set them up nicely with infantry and cavalry of all typed with control groups and everything, but after i use it to attack and am building more units to send into battle/newly captured city my army loses all organisation and becomes a big bunch of units with no control groups and no definite unit ratio.

My approach is to not worry about grouping my cavalry separate from my infantry, etc. In battle, I just double click a unit if I want to manuever that type separately. Instead, I just have control groups for whole armies, and for artillery. That way I can send my army after the opponents while focussing my artillery on my primary target, whatever that may be. Purists may differ (as I think they do with a lot of my approaches), but as units tend to attack what they counter first, it has worked fine for me in most cases.

quote: 7. which wonders (apart from statue of liberty of course) should i make sure i build?

For me, the main ones to get are the Colossus, the Terra Cotta army, Versailles, and the Statue of Victory (not my term - kudos to whoever I stole it from). But you should really try to build only the ones that complement your strategy.

quote: 8. does anyone ever actually use upgraded granaries etc? also, how do i get oil from offshore fields?

Yes, everyone I know uses upgraded granaries. It saves big time on time, resources, and pop cap. For offshore oil, all you need to do is select a citizen, build oil well and click on the oilfield.

quote: thanks alot for your help...

I hope it does indeed help. Check around this forum. There are lots of useful threads.

	26-06-2003 04:22									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I haven't played much multi-player, so my experience is based on the single player campaign. Hopefully you'll find this information useful:

1) I'm not sure what sized maps CtW uses but I typical build 5-7 cities myself (not counting what I conquer from the computer).

2) Usually I have two core economic cities with maxed out production - full farms, full woodcamps, full mining camps (if possible). Usually these will be my first two cities, as they will be furthest in the interior, and thus most secure. I always build graneries, lumbermills and forges (as appropriate) to maximize each of these city's production. I also build a university in each of these cities and max out on scholars.

With the other cities, I always build a temple to maximize my borders and a tower for protection. If they are a border city, I build multiple towers or a fort along with a barracks, stable and siege factory. Then I build additional economic buildings, as needed (for example, if my metal or wood production is still low, I'll build another mine or woodcamp, along with a forge or lumbermill). I might also build a third university (again, maxed out scholars) in the most secure city, if I need the additional knowledge. Sometimes I also build an extra marketplace or two, for the extra wealth.

3) I typically build my production centers along the border, and I put them at every city or border fort that can be attack by the computer. I then build up small mixed armies at each place. This probably would not work against a human opponent, but it works well against the AI at Moderate difficulty.

4) RoN uses a rock-paper-sissors approach with units. I can't remember which units counter which, but if you move the cursor over the unit descriptions at the bottom of the screen, the pop-up help text will tell you.

5) Generals provide an armor bonus to all your units in the vicinity of the general. In addition, they have special abilities like forced march (move faster), ambush (conceals units in a certain radius), entrenchment (a further armor bonus to units in a certain radius) and they can create decoys. I usually include at least one general with each major battle group I make, though I rarely use their special abilities (I always forget about them).

Spies can plant informers in enemy structures and cities, allowing you to use that structure's line of sight. Also, if you put an informer in a barracks or stable you can see how many of each unit type the opponent has. I usually build a couple of spies and start planting informers in every enemy city, though the AI is pretty efficient at getting rid of them.

Spies can also kill informers and they can kill other spies if they can see them (though Scouts are better spy killers IMO). Since spies are invisible and don't take attrition damage, I also will use them as late game scouts, putting them on auto-recon.

Their best ability (or most annoying, depending on your viewpoint) is bribing enemy units. I like to use the bribing ability, even though it envolves a bit of micromanagement. I've managed to hold off moderate sized attacks using just two or three spies around a fort or tower.

6) As for grouping armies, everyone has a different method. Some players like to put each type of unit under a different control key (i.e. light infantry are 1, heavy infantry 2, etc.). As for me, I usually build a good combined arms force composed of each unit type, then group them together with supply wagons and generals and a scout or two (to kill enemy spies) and then go to town on the bad guys.

I build replacement units and set rally points near the front so they'll automatically move closer. However, eventually the front moves away from my production centers, so I have to build new barracks, stables, etc. closer to the fighting.

7) Apart from the Statue of Liberty (a definite must have wonder), other good wonders that I like are the Collossus (gives +50 population) and the Pyramids (+1 city limit).

8) I always max out my granaries, forges and lumbermills. This allows you to max out your production limits on resources without have to using as many civilians, thus freeing up population points for more military units.

To build an off-shore oil platform, select a worker, select 'build oild derreck' then move it over the oil patch in the water. The worker will automatically sail to it and start building the oil platform. You should also build two or three refineries to boost oil production.


Note: Edited to change a couple of mistakes.

Last edited by Ed O'War on 26-06-2003 at 04:28

	26-06-2003 04:58									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I almost always build the Terra Cotta Army wonder - you just set its rally point to a general and you will soon have a massive army for just the cost of the wonder. As your army pushes the front back, new replacements will automatically join your existing army without any needed micromanagement.

	26-06-2003 06:37									#5
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the problem with the Terra cotta is, well the enemy (assuming your on MP, i'm not sure if the A.I reconignises this or not) will know that you are gonna have a mass amount of Light infantry... so... if he's smart he would put more than a usual amount of counters for Light infantry, thus, making a large portion of your military effectivly obsoleit. Now don't get me wrong, Terra cotta is still a good wonder, I use it now and than aswell... thats just one thing you have to keep in mind.

	26-06-2003 15:50									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

When I've had the Terra Cotta Army, I basically stop building light infantry right then and there. I still build other units, but I know that I'll always have a batch of LI from the wonder whenever I need them. Sure, my armies are heavy on the light infantry, but I be sure to build enough cavalry, etc, to keep them balanced.

	27-06-2003 03:31									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think that the best approach to the Terra Cotta army is not to think of it as a free military, but more that it will allow you to concentrate more on the heavy infantry, cavalry, archers, etc. that you need just as much. You don't have to worry about one branch of your army at all, so you save resources and you are able to focus your attention elsewhere.

However, does anyone else find that the TC Army is HUGELY useful once you hit Enlightenment and suddenly it's cranking out main infantry, not the support skirmishers you were getting earlier? Of course you still needed anti-cavalry guys, and some machine gunners later on, but the wonder completely takes care of the bulk of your army.

	27-06-2003 04:54									#8
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On a side note, I hate to build Heavy Infantry, because they become these ugly "Anti-Tank Infantry" come the Industrial Age.

	27-06-2003 07:45									#9
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One benefit of TC is that the AI does not build counters for Light Infantry more than other units. They continue to build a balanced army despite the fact that my army is composed entirely of one unit type.

Of course, for MP this would spell my end against a decent player. But since I'm SP only...

	27-06-2003 12:28									#10
	Support Apolyton

1. For me I usually have around 5-7.

2. I personally set each city up to be close to self sufficient, eg 5 farms per city, lumber camp if theres trees, same with metal, then a temple, a market, uni ,granary, lumbermill/smelter (thats only if metal and timber is in the region) and later on a refinery.

3. Unit production centres I usually have one, sometimes two. My one centre though is usally large with 3 of each unit production buildings a couple of airfields, castles, missle silos and so on. Although i have started spreading my silos out as, well, the person I play against regulary has some ill feeling towards nukes (especially mine ) and so does whatever he can to destroy them. Spreading them out stops them from being nuke targets.

4. For counters just click on a unit of that type and it will tell you what its counter and the such is. As for composition I'm still learning this bit properly.

5. Spies are excellent for pissing people off, use bribe everytime you can get the chance and use informers too in important areas. I'm thinking that they could make quite good alternative explorers but haven't checked this out properly yet.

6. Hmmmm organising armies is another thing i'm trying to learn to do decently. Try to have a good number of each unit type and a general (which i keep forgetting) or two, oh and supply wagons (unless you have statue).

7. Wonders to build are ummmm up to you really. I like Kremlin, Statue, Supercollider, Space Program, Effiel Tower (sp?) and a few of the others.

8. I personally upgrade every single little thing. Even if it doesn't actually matter I still upgrade. I like being technologically advanced.

Skywalker,

quote: On a side note, I hate to build Heavy Infantry, because they become these ugly "Anti-Tank Infantry" come the Industrial Age.

What do you build as anti-tank then?

	27-06-2003 16:42									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Flip McWho 8. I personally upgrade every single little thing. Even if it doesn't actually matter I still upgrade. I like being technologically advanced.

I personally preffer to advance an age or 2, together with military and save some unit upgrades! This doesn't apply if I'm under siege! But it saves resources, that you can use 4 better things.

	29-06-2003 06:51									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

I love to upgrade commerce and science, science being first to lower costs of everything. Btw, it doesn't hurt to have increased LOS! The TCA wonder works, well, wonders with screwing with the other player in MP. Just swarm your opponent from the front with Light Inf., while the rest of your army attacks the sides of his empire. Then retreat you Light Inf. when he goes to attack your main force. Then, gather all of your remaining Light Inf., and attack again, but with some siege. With a newb it'll frustrate him, and with an intermediate and up, it'll catch em off guard. Hope this helps. Au revoir.

	03-07-2003 03:10									#13
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7. Terra Cotta's pretty awesome, but Statue of Liberty is kinda overrated on SP. Get Versailles instead. What's a few supply wagons (which you should have before Statue anyway) when they heal your troops?

Angkor Wat's a very big deal, too, especially on water. Come Industrial age, virtually every unit BUT light infantry needs metal to build, and Angkor Wat gives discount AND metal bonus.

	03-07-2003 04:42									#14
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Terra Cotta Army is grossly overrated. It has its place, but if you're only going to build one or two wonders, there are better ones for almost every situation.

	03-07-2003 07:31									#15
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Terra Cotta's not a game winner of course, but I've been very happy with it. Big thing is play a civ with Light Infantry UU's, like Aztecs or Bantu. Second thing is delay building your own infantry at first, so you get more for free (it's 1 per 30 seconds + 7 seconds per infantry already up). Stick with Cavalry. Raid.

I will agree with most though that Colossus definitely deserves a high ranking.