26-06-2003 09:03									#1
	Colonies: An Idea for a Much Better System Support Apolyton

I think I have a very good idea for the problems dealing with land away from the mainland. When a country finds new land far away and wants to colonize it (I don't mean it literally, I'm not talking about the worker action) they face problems. Mainly the corruption is terrible and you can't build much (of course you can build forbidden palace, but it shouldn't be necessary). This isn't realistic. England had tons of overseas land but made a lot of money from it and they were able to turn some of it into developed areas. I have thought of a new system that solves this problem and makes the game better.

When you have cities that are away from the empire they can be designated as a colony. This would be judged on factors such as if the cities are separated from the mainland by water or land, how far away the cities are from the mainland, if other countries have land between the mainland and its cities, and how long the time between the original civilization and the cities away from the mainland were established. When an area is designated as a colony you choose names (noun, formal, adjective) for it and you give it a capital. This serves as another capital, one just for the colony. This will fix corruption.

Now there would be two types of colonies. The first type would be when you discover a new continent and build a bunch of cities with your settlers. This type would have lower corruption, lower unhappiness, and a lower national identity. The more national identity a colony has the better chance that it will rebel (more on that later) and declare itself its own nation. As time goes by there will be a greater chance of it rebelling. This type of colony will also generally have a better attitude towards you when it declares itself its own nation.

The second type of colony is when you invade land far away and take it over. When the citizens of cities you take over are from the same culture group they will have moderate corruption, national identity, unhappiness, and a worse future attitude. When they are from a different culture group they will have a lot more corruption, national identity, unhappiness, and a much worse future attitude.

A rebellion first starts off with the cities with their own national identity becoming unhappy, and you won't be able to fix it with entertainment. The more time elapses the more unhappy they become. You have the option of recognizing them as a new nation and if they have enough of a national identity they will accept and will have a good attitude towards you. If you don't, they will become even more unhappy and start a civil war.

When this happens, cities with enough national identity band together and declare themselves a nation. The more national identity they have and the less troops you have garrisoned in the city (unless the troops are built in the colony or if they have been there for a while, but more on that later) the greater chance of it joining the rebellion. Also, during a civil war there is increased war weariness.

As for military units taking sides, if the unit was built in the colony it has a large chance of rebelling. If it was built on the mainland the longer it has stayed on the colony the greater the chance of it rebelling. When a city joins the rebellion, the loyalist forces are killed or damaged and sent out of the city.

Other nations can choose to recognize the new nation. Most civs will probably at least send the new nations supplies (gold, resources, and troops) if it fights well and shows a chance of winning the war.

When the rebels win the war (that would be you signing a peace treaty) they are declared a new nation and their name is what you named them. After a civil war the rebel civ will have a bad attitude towards you but it will heal with time (depending on other factors which I explained earlier). The United States and Britain were enemies when the US rebelled but they became closer with time and now they are good allies.

What do you guys think?

	26-06-2003 10:06									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

In my experience colonies in Civ3 have been a waste of time and resources. As fast as I expand I usually overtake the colonies in short order.
It would be great if they really could do colonies right. (Simulating something like the British Empire where the sum total of the colonies were potentially greater than the motherland)

	26-06-2003 11:34									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hmmm, if only they'd open up the editor some more 'cause then you could have some sort of "Colonial Administration" or "Provincial Government" Small wonder, which could count as a major corruption busting improvement in every city on the continent!! You could also have small wonders, and great wonders, like "intercontinental trade and colonisation" (I know, very wordy), which becomes available with Navigation, and which also counts as a commercial/corruption busting improvement in every city!!Not a perfect solution, I know, but it would help a bit!!
As far as forbidden palace goes, I think the real problem with it is that it's the wrong name for it!! The forbidden palace Small wonder is, in my opinion, more like a provincial government.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	26-06-2003 11:55									#4
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker As far as forbidden palace goes, I think the real problem with it is that it's the wrong name for it!! The forbidden palace Small wonder is, in my opinion, more like a provincial government.

I definitely agree with that. The actual palace is nothing like its game counterpart.

	28-06-2003 18:45									#5
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker You could also have small wonders, and great wonders, like "intercontinental trade and colonisation" (I know, very wordy), which becomes available with Navigation, and which also counts as a commercial/corruption busting improvement in every city!!

(slightly) Less wordy version : The East India Company, perhaps? Even if IRL it made corruption worse, lol

	28-06-2003 22:49									#6
	Remove this text

I've modded my rules to add several Great Wonders that perform the Palace funtion. This way once you capture it from another player you still have the lowered corruption from it and don't have to build a new one.

What would be nice is a flag to desiginate it as a secondary Palace so that the AI uses it for that purpose and considers it an objective for that purpose. This way they would be built as Colonial Capitals and taking the Colony's capital would add a strategic objective in you military campaigns for the reduced corruption aspect.

	29-06-2003 01:14									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The colonies in Civ aren't really colonies.

Historically, colonies meant settlements. cities. That is why people refer to their overseas cities and holdings as colonies.

The colonies in the game are abstractions of resource gathering and have little weight since you loose them when the colonies are overtaken by someone else's borders.

This would have been a cause for war in real terms and I'd argue in the game context, even peaceful merging of a colony into the territory of another civ would be unacceptable. The reason you have a colony is to use a certain resource.

	29-06-2003 02:40									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I love this idea, although the ideas of my colonies revolting against me no matter what seems a bit unsettling. I know historically colonies have almost always revolted, but it seems to me that there should be ways to prevent a revolt. The general complaint (and I am generalizing quite a bit) of colonial people has been a lack of participation in the government. It seems to me that if you do things that equate to allowing government participation it will mollify the colonial people and prevent a rebellion. Additionally, I see no reason why entertainment should have no effect on preventing the rebellion. Happy people do not rebel. Give the people plenty of things to keep them happy, a religion to believe in, etc. and they'll ignore their native culture (synical I know). At the same time, in order to make it more difficult to complete, perhaps it should cost more shields to produce these improvements and/or require more per turn maintenance.

	29-06-2003 20:32									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

hi ,

well al this talk about colonies , there was a thread about it about a year or so ago , the idea was simple , keep any colony that lays outside a city radius , ...... , in other words , they should not be disbanded when they fall in a cultural border , ......

thats about the only thing that should be done to done to them , the rest seems a bit complicated , .....

have a nice day