26-06-2003 21:38									#1
	Can't believe: No genetic corn thread? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I haven't found one, so I bring it up here. Is nobody else outrages?

At first, this son of a bush tells Europeans that by hindering the import of genetic corn they aggravate the malnutrition in Africa, which is utter bullsh*t and that fears about negative effects of genetic food on the human body are irrational (although in this point I actually agree, at least no direct effects). The he tells European at lunch "to enjoy this genetically manipulated meal." For this arrogant remark, I'd have walked over to him and stuffed his foul mouth with his genetic corn!
Of course, Bush's interest is to diminish famine in Africa, introducing genetic corn would not aggravate the dependance of farmers from Monsanto seeds - NO WAY! It is pure coincidence that agriculture minister Ann Veneman is from Calgene/Pharmacia and was a major donatos to Bush's run for presidency, NOOO! It's all about the poor people in Africa who'll have to buy seeds every year from Monsanto, because you can't use the grown corn as seeds anymore. And because the crops are highly vulnerable to certain parasites (as genetically streamlined products always are) they'll have to buy masses of Monsanto pesticides to which the crops are of course resistant.

But instead of laughing and saying "No way!", our dear European leaders obviously found a way to profit from genetic food too and are giving in. Probably it will be soon called "a breakthrough in the fight against hunger in the world".
I start getting really angry, not much and you'll find me at the next G-8 summit.

	26-06-2003 21:44									#2
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I thought that if poor black people ate the corn instead of selling it for low, they'd be better off

	26-06-2003 21:52									#3
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Bush is definitly out of line for his severe lack of tact. Yet, no one has ever accused him of being tactful... And, desperate times do call for drastic measures.

quote: And because the crops are highly vulnerable to certain parasites (as genetically streamlined products always are) they'll have to buy masses of Monsanto pesticides to which the crops are of course resistant.

Genetically altered corn is vulerable to parasites and resistant to pesticides? Never heard that before. Seems to me they would make the corn more resistant to parasite and molds, not more prone to have that problem. Could you supply the link...

I too have no idea what the problem is with geneticlly altered food. IIRC, there does not exist a strand of corn today that has not been geneticlly engineered, at least not untouched by the hands of man to become a better crop...

	26-06-2003 21:59									#4
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Oh ****.

Say Werna, is those seeds are so bad, why would people buy them?

Why do people all over the world use them?

If the poor people in Africa want to use them, let them use them.


Oh, and please step down from your moral Olympus, and allow those poor African farmers you're obviously so worried of, to fairly compete against your own farmers by stopping to subsidize them.

	26-06-2003 22:01									#5
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Please, Azazel... you just KNOW our labour is too expensive to be fair competition to African goods

To paraprhase Americans when it comes to climate protection - we have to look after our economy first.

Basta. They protect our planet, we save Afircan lives. Deal? Not in a thousand years....

	26-06-2003 22:04									#6
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I have no problem with you being *******s. Just admit it. That's why I like Imran.

	26-06-2003 22:07									#7
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He admits America is a country full of arseholes? Fine.

In fact, all of the west + Israel are so, and so will the Chinese be once they're there.

Madonna said it: it's human nature, it's human nature...

	26-06-2003 22:11									#8
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not just the west. EVERYONE.

	26-06-2003 22:11									#9
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Of course the real issue is that genetically engineered foods are cheaper so they are a threat to those who produce non genetically engineered food. The alarmist and doomsday scenarios bandied about only make them look more ridiculous.

Ever since mankind left behind the hunter-gatherer days, we've been modifying plants and animals to suit our needs. There is no such thing as "natural food."

	26-06-2003 22:11									#10
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There are no health dangers to genetically grown vegetables. Despite what others may want you to believe or themselves to believe. The truth, they are far safer and produce better yielding crops than non-GE vegetables. They really can be used reduce famine worldwide. However, their may drawback is that they are controlled by big corporations. That is the only problem with GE food, anything else is hogwash.

	26-06-2003 22:12									#11
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quote: There are no health dangers to genetically grown vegetables. Despite what others may want you to believe or themselves to believe. The truth, they are far safer and produce better yielding crops than non-GE vegetables. They really can be used reduce famine worldwide. However, their may drawback is that they are controlled by big corporations. That is the only problem with GE food, anything else is hogwash.

	26-06-2003 22:13									#12
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are you not happy I'm considering coming to London?

	26-06-2003 22:16									#13
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Please come. It would be great!

	26-06-2003 22:19									#14
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DaShi is right. The biggest concern in my mind is that a few corporations will control the world's food supply of in a unique way: they will be the only source for seed. The food itself offers much promise: increased drought resistance, higher seed/plant ratios, disease resistance and most importantly, insect resistance. The latter should help reduce pesticide usage and correspondingly the amount of pesticide residue we have on our food today.

	26-06-2003 22:23									#16
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That entire "built in drug" stuff, I don't like it, though. It only launches an "arms race" against the pests. You can feed a bunch of cool animals instead, like owls, lizards, and stuff.

	26-06-2003 22:28									#17
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We have always been in competition with insects for food and when they get the upper hand the result is famine. We humans don't have the breeding proclivity of insects so we can only counter with the one advantage we do have: brain power.

	26-06-2003 22:30									#18
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quote: At first, this son of a bush tells Europeans that by hindering the import of genetic corn they aggravate the malnutrition in Africa

The son of a bush forgets that evil Europeans provide SEVEN times more aid to Africa and underdeveloped countries than the United States.

	26-06-2003 22:30									#19
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these gm foods are merely an accelerated version of what we've been doing for thousands of years.

i like them. they're something i find to be a good progress.

free them from the corporations, and they'll be even better.

	26-06-2003 22:31									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel If the poor people in Africa want to use them, let them use them. Oh, and please step down from your moral Olympus, and allow those poor African farmers you're obviously so worried of, to fairly compete against your own farmers by stopping to subsidize them.

Lamentably, just when posting the thread I was called off and have little time. So, for now, just a few words:
They have no chance but to use them, because it's what they get in US "aid". Most governments in Africa are not pleased about this (as Simbabwe, who openly rejected the aid IIRC), the average African simply has no idea what that's all about and just sees the corn itself. THEY don't care and weigh the possible future effects.

Point B: Yes, I actually think that our subsidiary system in agriculture stinks up to the heaven. And this is not specifically an anti-america thread. Our Euro arseholes are the same corporate *****es, maybe even more, if that's possible.

	26-06-2003 22:32									#21
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We could have fed all of Africa prior to the introduction of these crops anyway.

I do think some African countries not accepting modified corn as a form of food aid is going too far, gievn that no negative health effects have been found. The issue of importing the seed type for growth inside the countries is a bit different though becuase of the corporate issues raised.

	26-06-2003 22:35									#22
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negative effects are irrelevant. it's a principle matter, we cannot afford. just like America and climate protection.

the world starves and is clouded in smog to the better of 600 million. seems rather fair, especially since I'm one of the latter

	26-06-2003 22:40									#23
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quote: as Simbabwe, who openly rejected the aid IIRC

Yes, Zimbabwe acts in the interests of their citizens.

	26-06-2003 22:42									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III Lamentably, just when posting the thread I was called off and have little time. So, for now, just a few words: They have no chance but to use them, because it's what they get in US "aid". Most governments in Africa are not pleased about this (as Simbabwe, who openly rejected the aid IIRC), the average African simply has no idea what that's all about and just sees the corn itself. THEY don't care and weigh the possible future effects.

If Zimbabwe can do this, so can everyone else. As the Russian proverb goes "One should look at the cleanliness of the teath of a horse that is a gift"

quote: Point B: Yes, I actually think that our subsidiary system in agriculture stinks up to the heaven. And this is not specifically an anti-america thread. Our Euro arseholes are the same corporate *****es, maybe even more, if that's possible.

So please, cut the "how dare he" ****.

Ecthelion: Actually, there are more of us. There are about 1 billion people that live on the level of the west. There are about 3-3.5 billion that live so so ( very poor in our standards ), and there about 1.5-2 Billion that live DIRT POOR.

	26-06-2003 22:46									#25
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1 billion? must be all them japanese, canadians and crook people elsewhere counted in.

Since our claims towards the US are older, I suggest they sign some climate protection and THEN we can begin to debate whether or not we should open our markets to African agriculture... remember, our peasants (and especialyl the French peasants) will NEVER accept a drawback in living standard. NOONE in the west ever would unless he's a jobless, those have no lobby, unfortunately... or the poorly-jobbed.

	26-06-2003 22:47									#26
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quote: "One should look at the cleanliness of the teath of a horse that is a gift"

Man, us Americans have really tortured that saying to "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"... We are so lazy.

I agree Azazel.

Food is food, it won't kill them, if it can help to raise the standards of living for billions of people should we not do our best to put that corn on to peoples plates regardless if the president who is offering it is being a *****, or if a coorporation will benefit from it? Would you rather see a coorporation go broke and people starve?

	26-06-2003 22:51									#27
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NA: 310 Million.
Western, and central Europe: ~400 Million.
Japan: 130 Million.
That already brings us to around 850 people. Now take the upper classes of other countries, and there you go.

	26-06-2003 22:52									#28
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some plants produce toxic substances, and are therefore not recommanded to eat. maybe genetically engineered tomatoes can produce similarly toxic substances, too. just maybe, I'm no friggin microbiologist, which you'd have to be. Azazel, you're a chemistry freak, but you know so am I, and we both know our knowledge is not sufficient to tell.

They genetically engineered tomatoes, before. we eat them nowadays. what did they do? they made them mroe stable elst they're mud when we get home. the price we paid? they taste like water now. that's Dutch tomato. if you're rich, you get Italian tomatoes, tastier and only slightly more prone to become mud.

If taste can disappear, new taste can appear, toxic acids can appear, everything can happen. And we just don'T know how well-tested those products are.

	26-06-2003 22:53									#29
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It's not as simple as that.

	26-06-2003 22:58									#30
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thanks