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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:29
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Sun would be better of spending money on R&D and making competent products rather than *****ing about MS.
It seems they didn't learn from Netscape's mistakes.
http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-1021452.html?tag=fd_top
quote:
Court curbs Microsoft Java distribution
By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
June 26, 2003, 1:01 PM PT
update A federal appeals court dealt a legal blow to Sun Microsystems on Thursday, tossing out most of a preliminary injunction requiring Microsoft to carry its rival's version of an interpreter for the Java programming language.
But the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va., upheld a requirement that Microsoft cease distributing certain copies of its own Java virtual machine, saying that Microsoft "exceeded the scope" of a January 2001 license agreement with Sun. The three-judge panel said the agreement only gives Microsoft the right to include its own Java VM in Windows, not to offer it separately through computer makers or through Windows Update, which Microsoft stopped doing in February.
The panel devoted the bulk of its 28-page opinion to assailing other portions of an injunction imposed on Microsoft by a district court earlier this year. In explaining the need for the injunction, U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz concluded there was a "serious risk" that the market could tip away from Java and toward Microsoft's .Net.
"We conclude that the district court's findings are insufficient to support its conclusion that immediate irreparable harm will be sustained if the mandatory preliminary injunction is not entered, and accordingly, that injunction must be vacated," the panel said Thursday.
Both companies said they were "pleased" with the decision.
"We are extremely pleased with the appellate court's ruling today affirming the copyright infringement injunction," Lee Patch, Sun's vice president for legal affairs, said in a statement. "This decision confirms that Microsoft violated our prior settlement agreement, and that it did so in a way that continued to fragment the Java platform on PCs."
But Patch said he was "disappointed" that the appeals court rejected the must-carry requirement.
The case now returns to Motz for further proceedings and an eventual trial, unless the companies agree to a settlement.
In December, Motz concluded that Sun stood a good chance of winning its antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft and told both sides to craft a preliminary injunction, which he approved on Jan. 21.
In his 11-page order, Motz gave Sun what it requested when filing the lawsuit: an injunction ordering Microsoft immediately to stop distributing incompatible versions of Sun's Java interpreter and to begin shipping authorized versions with Windows and Internet Explorer in four months.
Microsoft immediately appealed Motz's decision to the 4th Circuit, calling it "extreme and unprecedented" and accusing Sun of violating a California law that prohibits unfair competition. On Feb. 4, a three-judge panel of the appeals court put Motz's injunction on hold until the panel could hear oral arguments--which took place on April 3--and reach its own decision.
Sun's case builds on a previous legal assault on its rival, which began in October 1997 and alleged that Microsoft violated its license agreement by distributing incompatible versions of Java and deceptively promoting those versions as compatible. The two companies settled in Jannuary 2001, with Microsoft agreeing to pay Sun $20 million and inking a contract that governs how Microsoft could distribute Java.
The Java language lets programs run without alterations on a variety of computers. Because a Java program can run, for instance, on a mainframe from IBM, a Unix server from Sun and a Windows PC from Dell Computer, it represents a possible threat to Microsoft's dominant Windows OS.
In an internal e-mail message dated September 1996, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates wrote that the Java platform "scares the hell out of me," because it's "still very unclear to me what our OS will offer to Java client applications code that will make them unique enough to preserve our market position." |
Sun should give up while they're only several billion dollars out. 
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Cruddy
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You know Asher, that answers something that has been puzzling me. Why I couldn't get Win98 VM from Windows Update.
Not that I'm honestly that bothered about how much cash flows around the US civil action system, but it does actually make the whole Java thing more understandable. And now I know why I can't download the thing.
Of course, this isn't the end of the story... and I for one am not going to predict end point, because I honestly don't know the arguments on either side.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:29
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It went something like this:
MS starts distributing the MS VM, which is substantially faster than Sun's VM but incompatible with other VMs.
Minor *****fights for a few years.
More recently, Sun thought it'd be a great idea to take MS to court over it again. MS thought "to hell with it", and just announced they now wouldn't ship Java at all.
Sun was taken by surprise, that's not what they expected...
So they took MS to court, again, this time saying the government should force MS to ship Java with its OSes. Of course, this itself isn't exactly lawful, which is why the appeals courts have tossed it out.
The article is a bit funny, where it says both sides claimed victory -- Sun didn't get anything out of this. MS isn't shipping any version of Java right now, that's even worse than MS shipping the fast, incompatible version. 
And they're still sinking huge sums of money into the dispute, and making it worse for themselves. 
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Comrade Tassadar
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Glorious!
I hate Suns java. It's so unstable and slow.
Microsoft is MUCH better.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:29
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quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
It's not illegal. Unless you are thinking copyright violation because of the name.
Yes, they have the right to alter the language! Why not? If they can turn out a BETTER PRODUCT (which, btw, is FREE!), well, kudos to them! |
What Urban Ranger is being silly about, is Java is Sun's Intellectual Property and theirs alone.
You see, unlike MS, Sun is hogging Java and demanding complete control over it. MS submitted C# to the ISO and European standards committee (its name escapes me at the moment), and Sun refuses to do so.
Sun is killing Java through their own stupidity. MS is just accelerating it by offering better alternatives.
The only thing illegal here was Sun's demand MS include Java. 
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27-06-2003 03:08
Attachment: 
), nor is it anti-business.
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