27-06-2003 09:31									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi The RIAA significantly outweighs it's opponent in terms of organized lobbying and PAC efforts, so there is a good chance they could the government to go their way on legislation, perhaps making hacking into downloaders computers legal, or perhaps tough criminal penalties for people who download music. Then they can just trace down the people downloading the music, and make examples of the individuals.

I can't see even the most diehard Republicans will want to allow RIAA to break into other people's computers, save for those in the pockets of the organisation. You have to realise the backlash against any legislators who support such a silly measure will be staggering, given the sanctity of individualism and privacy. They will be all thrown out of office when the time comes, with a helpful reminder from their challengers.

	27-06-2003 09:43									#62
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Has anyone downloaded an MP3 today ?

	27-06-2003 09:45									#63
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Sloww, you just killed this thread .

	27-06-2003 09:48									#64
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Well, I just see a lot of argument on good vs. evil.
I haven't, and wondered if someone had some bigger nuts than me, to test the water.

	27-06-2003 09:53									#65
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MP3s have created the situation where the property regime in music has become too expensive to enforce. Everyone can fileshare cheaply, but it costs money to track, identify, and litigate against fed-up consumers who are mostly judgement-proof anyway.

The radical "solution" for the RIAA is to start blowing up other people's computers. Cute. In other words, the RIAA is arguing in favor of violating the property rights of others (in their computers).

I would sugest they invest in a new business model instead.

	27-06-2003 09:55									#66
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So you DID download today ?

	27-06-2003 09:55									#67
	Got spare money?

Sure. But only one song.

	27-06-2003 09:57									#68
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I figure I'll wait and see.

	27-06-2003 09:58									#69
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But I downloaded it from friend, not p2p-thingies. And that song lasted 130 minutes. And it's not on sail, it's dj's liveset, so I don't think I'm in big trouble.

edit: unless RIAA comes here, listen the set with pen and paper and figure out how many tracks the dj spins. 'Oh we definitely have something here Rudolf. 130 minutes long, track changing every 3 minutes.. you're in deep trouble, BOY!'. At this point I attack these dudes for supposedly sexually harrasing me.

	27-06-2003 10:03									#70
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I just didn't want this system to go into some kind of melt-down crisis situation while at the same time 2 guys in suits and dark glasses are banging on the door.

	27-06-2003 10:05									#71
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I'm not worried if it's only a door they're banging, and someone elses than mine .

	27-06-2003 10:24									#72
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What about counter-suits? Suing the RIAA for harassing and causing fear in people? Sure, maybe such suits would be found to be without merit, but a constant deluge of suits may give them something to think about.

	27-06-2003 10:26									#73
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk What about counter-suits? Suing the RIAA for harassing and causing fear in people?

Sure if you can pay the fines slapped on you by the judge.

	27-06-2003 10:32									#74
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Well, I was thinking of a cadre of lawyers, supported by the internet users in general, through paypal. Would you give $5 to hit the RIAA where it hurts?

I wonder who would end up with the larger warchest...

	27-06-2003 10:39									#75
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I'd pay 5 bucks.

	27-06-2003 10:42									#76
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quote: I wonder who would end up with the larger warchest...

The one who organises it.
-

Maybe we can try them over here for crimes against humanity

	27-06-2003 10:42									#77
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Would you give $5 to hit the RIAA where it hurts?

Depends. Would it be tax deductible?

	27-06-2003 10:49									#78
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Sure if you can pay the fines slapped on you by the judge.

But that's not without merit. Instead of waiting for RIAA to pick and choose the battles, do it yourself. Some states are more pro-business while others are more pro-consumers. Look for a state with a good set of consumer protection laws with judges sympathetic to consumers, and hit them there.

	27-06-2003 11:02									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin How long before Peer to Peer networks offer anomyous downloads with encrypted files? That would throw a monkey wrench into the RIAA's plans.

Another thing - and I though this was Napster's fatal mistake, is what happens if someone goes back to a server environment in a country with rampant piracy and no real interest in what the RIAA or US judicial system has to say?

	27-06-2003 11:03									#80
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Like that will be hard to find.

	27-06-2003 11:18									#81
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Another thing - and I though this was Napster's fatal mistake, is what happens if someone goes back to a server environment in a country with rampant piracy and no real interest in what the RIAA or US judicial system has to say?

I thought about that for a bit, though the RIAA could always try to get injunctions to force ISPs to block these servers.

	27-06-2003 11:21									#82
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All you'd have to do is show some legitimate activity from the same IP blocks, and a few other minor tricks. The ISP's wouldn't want to do it anyway, so they'd hire good lawyers, and injunctions against third parties are damned hard to obtain.

Best chance the RIAA would have (and not much of a chance) would be to get a legislative solution to get their blocking.

	27-06-2003 11:31									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Do they think this will work? First of all you can't really get any money out of the children who are a large proportion of file sharers and you can't send them to jail. Secondly, the costs of hunting down and prosecuting every single infringer are prohibitive. And if they don't go after everyone, what's the point?

Children have parents. Parents have money. Parents are legally responsible for what goes on in their homes, done by their kids. Bye-bye.

	27-06-2003 11:33									#84
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk What about counter-suits? Suing the RIAA for harassing and causing fear in people? Sure, maybe such suits would be found to be without merit, but a constant deluge of suits may give them something to think about.

Problem is they counter-counter sue for costs. Want your frivolity to hit your wallet?

	27-06-2003 11:54									#85
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face it guys, the RIAA has won

I for one have refrained from sharing too many files. They are going after those who sare the most files.

Most people will be scared to share their files, and they will be harder, and harder to find.

Eventually Peer to Peer use will cease to exist.

	27-06-2003 11:54									#86
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Say there was an ISP that the RIAA wanted to shut down in a country that didn't much care for US views. Would it be beyond the RIAA to do "black ops" to remove that particular server?

	27-06-2003 12:15									#87
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There's nothing RIAA can really do to remove the server. Breaking into it for rampage deletion of files would only cause it to be unavailable for some time until restoring from backups is complete. There's always the possibility of the attackers are traced back, that would be really bad news for RIAA.

I guess they can always try to hire people to physically destroy the server, but if they are caught there will be hell to pay. Even more so than just merely breaking in.

Edit: RIAA cannot really attack ISPs because they are legit businesses. Besides, lots of ISPs got some pretty competent engineers.

	27-06-2003 12:18									#88
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Hehe. You assume that hackers only go one way.

You don't think that with billions potentially at stake, they wouldn't use brown envelopes and hackers to hack the hackers?

	27-06-2003 12:27									#89
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Hehe. You assume that hackers only go one way.

You don't think that with billions potentially at stake, they wouldn't use brown envelopes and hackers to hack the hackers?

No, I don't assume that. Hackers in fact only go one way. Even Kevin Mitnick didn't go around breaking into other people's systems for pay. Even black hats rarely do this sort of thing as hired guns.

	27-06-2003 12:28									#90
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Problem is they counter-counter sue for costs. Want your frivolity to hit your wallet?

The same paypal-supported fund that hires the lawyers in the first place would also pay out damages, if any.