27-06-2003 12:08									#1
	Was Judas an anti-semitic creation? Remove this text

now maybe i'm waaaay off but it always seemed to me that Judas was created in the middle ages to make jews look bad... first off, is his name which bears a close resemblence to judah, judea, judeaism, etc. and there's the fact that he was so crass and obsessed with money that he sold out jesus, etc.

am i crazy or is this plausible?

	27-06-2003 12:10									#2
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interesting theory

	27-06-2003 12:12									#3
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Since Jesus was himself not only a Jew, but a descendant of the Davidic dynasty, and the apostles were themselves Jews by origin, you're so crazy I can't think of any polite description.

	27-06-2003 12:14									#4
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Seeing as how Judas is in early translations of the Bible, I'm gonna have to go with crazy.

	27-06-2003 12:18									#5
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Yes, Judas is mentioned in the original Greek the New Testament is written in. Not crazy, but misinformed. Get invovled with some College Christian organization when you get to Temple University.

	27-06-2003 12:19									#6
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Now, you might argue that the Crucifixion/Resurrection is a fabrication, but that's a different argument

	27-06-2003 12:21									#7
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Now, you might argue that the Crucifixion/Resurrection is a fabrication, but that's a different argument

	27-06-2003 12:26									#8
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Whatever happened to that guy? He was always hilarious!

	27-06-2003 12:40									#9
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quote: Was Judas an anti-semitic creation?

Was Jesus?

Btw, there is a book with a rational explanation for what happened. The short version is that Judas was not betraying Jesus, but merely playing the role assigned him by Jesus. Jesus needed to fulfill certain prophecies, you know, like riding into town on a donkey, for his role as messiah was to be accepted.
I forget which book, but I'm almost certain it's in "The Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls" by Barbara Thiering, or in "The Mythmaker", a book about how Paul passed aspects of his own religion off as Christianity and now we have a mixture of both...

	27-06-2003 12:58									#10
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Berzerker, have you ever seen "The Last Temptation of Christ." In that movie, Judas is Jesus's best friend and only betrays him (very reluctantly) because Jesus says he must. He's only playing his role. Same theory that you just stated.

	27-06-2003 13:02									#11
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well that idea that Judas was only doing what he was destined to do aint exactly new...

	27-06-2003 15:58									#12
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Yeah, there is actual evidence for this interpretation of events. Or maybe it's just a conspiracy perpetrated by the Elders of Zion to counter the anti-Jews who point to Judas the Jew as a reason to hate Jews.

	27-06-2003 16:33									#13
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Isn't the entire "Bible" in fact just a ZOG ruse to lull us aryans into worshipping a semite? I ask.

	27-06-2003 16:35									#14
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crazy...

	27-06-2003 17:13									#15
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Has political correctness got so bad, we can't even have a bad jewish person in a historical account/story (take your pick).

The character of Judas is very common among human beings, in all cultures and all walks of life. Why is it so hard to believe one such character could be Jewish.

Regards to the name, Judas .. well, maybe somebody who is Jewish themselves could respond on how common the name Judas is amongst Jews (I personally do not know), but it strikes me as obvious that a jew may well be called a name which closely resembles the name of his people/nation.
eg . Bharat in India (Bharat is India in Hindi).

Last edited by The Viceroy on 27-06-2003 at 17:30

	27-06-2003 17:26									#16
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quote: The character of Judas is very common among human beings, in all cutures and all walks of life. Why is it so hard to believe one such character could be Jewish.

Why should we believe that about Judas based on characters in other cultures? We have only this story and our interpretations. Some scholars say Judas betrayed Jesus, and some scholars say he was instructed to betray him by Jesus. We can only see the evidence and reach our own conclusions, but what this has to do with PC is beyond me.

	27-06-2003 17:27									#17
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quote: Originally posted by The Viceroy Regards to the name, Judas .. well, maybe somebody who is Jewish themselves could respond on how common the name Judas is amongst Jews (I personally do not know), but it strikes me as obvious that a jew may well be called a name which closely resembles the name of his people/nation. eg . Bharat in India (Bharat is India in Hindi).

I've never met a Bharat, but I have met a Tommy Rhat.

	27-06-2003 17:31									#18
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I know many Bharat's .. but then, I goto India a lot.

	27-06-2003 17:37									#19
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Berzerker ,

was not the question regards to if the character was created to make jews look bad ?? so the issue of pc is certainly valid.

I agree though, I would not ask you to accept the judas character as being true, just because many people in the world are the characture described by the questioner .. I was merely saying, why is it impossible to believe ? which i think is different from saying it is impossible to know, as you correctly state.

	27-06-2003 17:53									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker The short version is that Judas was not betraying Jesus, but merely playing the role assigned him by Jesus. Jesus needed to fulfill certain prophecies, you know, like riding into town on a donkey, for his role as messiah was to be accepted.

This has been my view all along. Judas should be a hero to Christians. For without him, Jesus could not carry out the divine plan assigned.

	28-06-2003 01:08									#21
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quote: Judas should be a hero to Christians. For without him, Jesus could not carry out the divine plan assigned.

maybe someone who knows christian history better could elaborate but wasn't there a pro-Judas movement centuries ago?

	28-06-2003 01:17									#22
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Anyone noticed that in the gospel of Luke Jesus had two disciples called Judas? The other is usually merged with Thaddeus from Mark and Mattew.

The theory I've heard of was that Judas thought that Jesus had a political mission to restore the kingdom of Juda. He wanted him to come out and finally release his divine powers against the Romans. Finally, Jesus did come out but not quite in the way Judas expected.
Anyway, in this sense, Judas wasn't worse than many idiots today ...

	28-06-2003 01:23									#23
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quote: Anyone noticed that in the gospel of Luke Jesus had two disciples called Judas?

yeah i actually had noticed that but i wasnt sure if it was the same Judas or if judas was a common name or not.

	28-06-2003 01:36									#24
	Re: Was Judas an anti-semitic creation? Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer now maybe i'm waaaay off but it always seemed to me that Judas was created in the middle ages to make jews look bad... first off, is his name which bears a close resemblence to judah, judea, judeaism, etc. and there's the fact that he was so crass and obsessed with money that he sold out jesus, etc. am i crazy or is this plausible?

My opinion, and mine only; that is to say, it's not authenticated by anyone that matters.
Maybe someone said it already, but I'm not sifting through what I feel sure would be reams of crap, as it always is when someone is interested in a religious question.

There was more than one of many names, for the record.

IMO, Judas got screwed.
Everything that went down relyed on Judas' weakness.
I don't believe he's in Hell, but rather at the hand of the Master.
He was essential to history, and had nothing at all to do with any "anti-semitic" theories.

	28-06-2003 01:38									#25
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Do you still think you're being persecuted by jews?

	28-06-2003 01:39									#26
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quote: the Crucifixion/Resurrection is a fabrication

I would agree with this.

	28-06-2003 01:41									#27
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Sava's going to He-ll. Sava's going to He-ll.

	28-06-2003 01:42									#28
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I'll say hi to Strom and save you a seat.

	28-06-2003 01:44									#29
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No way buddy. My elevator's going to the top floor.

	28-06-2003 01:45									#30
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Not if you voted for Bush.