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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:29
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Interesting thread idea.
Allot would depend on the proximity of my neighbors. 2&3 are camps, 6&7 would be higher if I had a close neighbor, but after 4 or 5 I would be itching for someone to go and bonk on with archers, assuming I hadn't already. 11 is late because I rely on archer rushing allot, depending on civ chosen there as well I guess then...
 Attachment: cp1.jpg
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Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 28-06-2003 at 00:35
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:29
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ok, here's what i'd do and why: (btw, everyone is doing 12 cities so me too)
1) capital. as is.
2) first core city, has 3 bonus grasses and can chop some forest for rushing early improvements.
3) first military camp site, can rush barracks with forest too
4) 2nd core city, gets the grapes
5) 2nd military camp should be of use for a planned swordsman rush
6) 3rd core city gets the iron, will be corrupt but for the moment, iron is all that matters
7) 4th core city, locks the dangerious 4-tile gap between 6 and 2 in case there's an enemy to the NE.
8) 5th core city, gets the cow, locks the 3-tile gap in the NW.
9) 6th core city, gets the gold (rush a temple to get both)
10) 3rd Miltiary camp. Pretty crappy land, not worth a core city there.
11) 7th core city pushes the border a bit to the NW and can get the horses.
12) 8th core city just to cover space, land isn't too good either but it's a safe spot.
Depending on the nature of the game, should a dangerous enemy be to the NW, then perhaps 8 would be built instead of 7. Either of these two cities are interchangeable depending on where the greatest threat is, to the NW or NE...
Attachment: image2.jpg
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Last edited by Master Zen on 28-06-2003 at 04:19
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Dominae
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On Master Zen's map, I would put #10 as #2. With a start like that, a Granary is a must, which means the Wheat tile will go to waste every three turns (4+4+4=12, but only 10 Food required to grow with a Granary). That extra Food is really useful in early growth. Food should always be prioritized early on, regardless of whether pure REX is the goal. Bonus Grasslands are fine tiles but not as good as bonus Food.
Edit: I'm wondering why Master Zen prioritized site 2 at all. It's not River-adjacent, does not have access to a bonus Food tile, and competes with the capital for Bonus Grassland tiles. It would probably be the last of the cities I build in that "ring" at ~equal distance around the capital.
Dominae
Last edited by Dominae on 28-06-2003 at 10:12
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Dominae
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By the way, unless you're playing Expansionist and get to take a better look Turn 1, it is impossible to know that there will be a Wheat tile within the starting location's city radius (nor much else, for that matter). Conceivably you could move the Worker NE before the Settler and spot the Wheat, but you could just as well have moved it NW as well (you might even decide to move SE onto the Silks for some early Commerce and Happy Faces). Anything beyond this is information you're not privvy to in a normal game.
With the information at hand, the right play is to build the city immediately.
Dominae
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
On Master Zen's map, I would put #10 as #2. With a start like that, a Granary is a must, which means the Wheat tile will go to waste every three turns (4+4+4=12, but only 10 Food required to grow with a Granary). That extra Food is really useful in early growth. Food should always be prioritized early on, regardless of whether pure REX is the goal. Bonus Grasslands are fine tiles but not as good as bonus Food.
Edit: I'm wondering why Master Zen prioritized site 2 at all. It's not River-adjacent, does not have access to a bonus Food tile, and competes with the capital for Bonus Grassland tiles. It would probably be the last of the cities I build in that "ring" at ~equal distance around the capital.
Dominae |
The reason I prioritized #2 was becuase of the forest and the bonus grasses. My 2nd city usually doubles a a military camp/granary site. First as military, I like to rush a barracks for a few quick units if possible for a ultra-ultra-early archer rush along with city 3. So, capital becomes settler pump, City 2 becomes military city until city 3 is up and running, then switches to settler pumping with a granary (if possible helped by a forest chop). If an early war takes a bit too long then perhaps I'd wait for a better city spot or switch once 2 camps are in place.
Mind you if I knew I was safe at the start I'd go with the 2 quick granaries and would have instead built the #2 city at #8 instead. But you should know this is a GoW Dtrategy thread where we're all paranoid mother****ers... 
The placement I outlined would be in the event of a "normal paranoia" mode. In a "heavy paranoia" mode (say 2 close neighbors) I'd build the 2 camps first and have 3 camps very quickly for a massive archer rush. (good lord, I'm sounding like Tom Ridge here...)
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cumi
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Austria
Jul 2002
time: 06:29
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Hi,
here is, how would I place my cities (most probably).
The white boxies are the core, productive cities, that would be responsible for building military, wonders etc.
The gray cities will be my second core cities with high corruption, responsible for building workers (in the beginning at least).
Usually, I build one of the second core cities earlier, than the first cities are all founded, because of the workers...
BTW, I used the numbers totally randomly...
Attachment: cityplacement_1_1.jpg
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Master Zen
The reason I prioritized #2 was becuase of the forest and the bonus grasses.
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Your site #3 looks better for this purpose (access to Bonus Grasslands, Silk Forest to chop, low Corruption). Even if it's to be a temporary city, there's no real harm in building a Barracks there, since it will be "temporary" for a long time (i.e. long enough for the Barracks to pay off).
quote:
My 2nd city usually doubles a a military camp/granary site. First as military, I like to rush a barracks for a few quick units if possible for a ultra-ultra-early archer rush along with city 3. So, capital becomes settler pump, City 2 becomes military city until city 3 is up and running, then switches to settler pumping with a granary (if possible helped by a forest chop). If an early war takes a bit too long then perhaps I'd wait for a better city spot or switch once 2 camps are in place.
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I guess it all depends on your level of paranoia. If you're reasonably confident that your neighbor will attack you with 2-3 Warriors and maybe an Archer, perhaps it's better to build a military camp right away. In other circumstances (and against the AI), prioritizing the Food (at all sites) is best, I think.
Another thing: good Food production has a place even in the most militaristic of starts. Even if you're only producing 1 Shield per turn by working that bonus Wheat, the growth to size 2 in 5 turns more than offsets the "loss" of production. IMO, the same applies across the board for any Food bonus, however small. The only situation in which there is too much Food is those "Flood Plains only" starts, but there you've not much a choice anyway.
How would you place your cities if this were a SP game?
Dominae
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Dominae
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GhengisFarb, with that setup I see no reason to ever disband the camps. Why restrict yourself to such a layout instead of just placing cities closer together at good city-states to begin with?
In this map, it turns out that your initial four camps around the capital are very well-placed with respect to good tiles (especially bonus Food). But in other maps (like your example in the other thread), this will not be the case.
Note that if ever you disband the camps, the tiles immediately underneath them will never be accessible by any city.
Dominae
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
GhengisFarb, with that setup I see no reason to ever disband the camps. Why restrict yourself to such a layout instead of just placing cities closer together at good city-states to begin with?
In this map, it turns out that your initial four camps around the capital are very well-placed with respect to good tiles (especially bonus Food). But in other maps (like your example in the other thread), this will not be the case.
Note that if ever you disband the camps, the tiles immediately underneath them will never be accessible by any city.
Dominae |
The primary difference in our strategies from what I have observed is that your placement is based on short term or immediate use, while my placement is based on long term or the tile usage of the citysites later in the game.
I prefer to place my cites where they will minimize corruption and maximize tile usage later down the road when they are size 7-12 cities than to sacrifice that effectiveness to gain a Wheat resource immediately rather than to simply have access to it in another 10-18 turns.
While I lose out on those 10-18 turns of bonus production (+1-2 food under Despotism) I gain far more (1-2 shields and 1-2 commerce under Despotism or an even greater benefit assuming I decide not to play under Despotism for the entire game) once the city's radius expands.
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 28-06-2003 at 23:34
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Dominae
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I'm not sure why your size 7-12 cities are better under your system. Is it because of the lowered Corruption of having your camps each at distance 2 from the capital? But then that's not really a long-term benefit, as you plan to disband your camps at some point.
You've still not addressed the fact that you're not utilizing many tiles around your core once you disband your camps. That's not really good long-term usage, either.
If you place your 4 camp cities before outer ring, and assuming that the map is such that your 4 camps do not have access to a bonus Food but your outer ring does, then you're losing out on much much more than 10-18 turns of bonus Food production.
Accessing the bonus Food tiles early is not "short-term gain", but rather the best kind of investment you can make early on to support your choices in the long run.
It would be interesting but boringly complicated to run tests to determine if the benefits of prioritizing Food tiles is better or worse than minimizing Corruption by using the pattern you're proposing. I could very well be wrong, but my gut instinct tells me that extra Food will almost always prevail (barring any Flood Plain silliness). This is especially true if you're playing an Industrious civ, in which case: extra Food = extra Industrious Workers = more tile improvements = laugh in the face of Corruption.
Dominae
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DaveMcW
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I agree, I always make sure bonus food is in my 9-tile radius. And sites with bonus food are settled first.
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