30-06-2003 05:25									#1
	Tech help. Increase the size of your Attachments

Got a PC from an uncle who upgraded.
The power supply box was burned.


I replaced the power supply box with the one from my own PC (they are both 230V but one has two sockets the ohter only one).

Now what is happening is this.


The motherboard turns on, the fans start working but not the drives, and then after 10 seconds or so it turns off. Note that there is no signal given to the monitor.

Any ideas on what I should do if anything to fix it?

I don't know if getting a new power supply box would help?
But since it's the same votlage 230V shouldn't it be working?

BTW the "new" motherboard and chip is twice the speed of what I got so it would be nice to have a new better computer for no price or just 5 euros (the power supply).


Or could the whole motherboard or some elements be burned???


Thanks for your help in advance.

	30-06-2003 05:28									#2
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I'm thinking it is the motherboard.

Is it that new? Is there any damage to it?

	30-06-2003 05:31									#3
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It is a year old or so.


I don't know wether there is damage to it, that's what I'd like to find out.


The power supply box got burned, so my uncle just bought a new PC and gave me his old one.


Could that power supply burn have damaged the motherboard?

I described what is happening, the light of the motherboard does turn on for 10 secs and then it turns off.

	30-06-2003 05:35									#4
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has to be

exactly how did the power supply get burned?

Either way- it probably fried the motherboard with too high a voltage or current. (you could look for burn marks or damage on the motherboard)

	30-06-2003 05:37									#5
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Got a PC from an uncle who upgraded. The power supply box was burned. I replaced the power supply box with the one from my own PC (they are both 230V but one has two sockets the ohter only one).

Shouldn't make a difference - what matters is the rating (in W, for Watts) which should be clearly displayed on the outside. Also, these days most PSUs have individual ratings for each rail - for instance, 3.3V at 20A, 5V at 25A.

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Now what is happening is this. The motherboard turns on, the fans start working but not the drives, and then after 10 seconds or so it turns off. Note that there is no signal given to the monitor.

OK, the drives for some reason are not getting power. WHY they are not getting power is for one of 2 reasons...

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Any ideas on what I should do if anything to fix it? I don't know if getting a new power supply box would help? But since it's the same votlage 230V shouldn't it be working?

The voltage is important because otherwise it won't work at all - but just as important is the rating in Watts, W for short. If the PSU cannot give out the Watts, the board cannot power up.

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 BTW the "new" motherboard and chip is twice the speed of what I got so it would be nice to have a new better computer for no price or just 5 euros (the power supply).

5 Euros is a VERY cheap power supply. I would be suspicious of this.

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Or could the whole motherboard or some elements be burned???

It might be that, but I doubt it. If onboard power regulators were the problem it probably wouldn't do ANYTHING.

When boards power up, they check to see they have RAM, processor, and a video card. Without these 3 things, no board will bother going further.

Also, they check to see if power is proper supply - again, if not, they will stop like yours does.

What makes me VERY suspicious is your drives are not powering up. 2 reasons...

1) The board has a problem, and is taking so much power that there isn't any for the drives.

2) The board is OK but the new power supply unit is too small - it cannot give the Watts to power both computer and the motherboard.

If you have 2 computers, try swapping over the drives into the "good" system - the one you know works. If they start spinning, you know they are OK.

Second, check the label on the PSU. If it says 300W or less I would buy more capable - 400W or more is seen as OK for XP Athlons and older P4s. Even more for later P4s...

Hope this helps. I suspect your PSU... but you are right, when old PSU burned, it could have damaged motherboard as well.

	30-06-2003 05:37									#6
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I'm afraid I don't know how th power supply box got burned. It just stoppped working I guess. I don't know the exact reason though.

The motherboard looks in excellent condition. No burn marks whatsoever.

	30-06-2003 05:42									#7
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Thank you very much Cruddy.


I also suspect the PSU. That's why I'll get it with me when I will go to buy a new one. And not for 5 euros. My mistake. They cost something like 10,000 drachmas but I'm bored to translate to euroes. Around 25 euros?

Also, the light of the hard drive DID turn on, I saw it on the outsideof the box, where it has the light and it was on for as long as the motherboard was on. Aproximately 10 seconds.

But there was no responce to either the monitor nor the floppy disk.



So it might be the PSU? I hope it is.

I though the PSU of my old PC might not be exactly what the "new" one needed. But I wanted some advice before I went to buy a new one. Wouldn't want to just throw money away if there wasn't a chance it was the PSU.

	30-06-2003 05:54									#8
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BTW, another strange thing.

When I put the PSU back to my old PC, it wouldn't turn on at all!

I had to re-insert the voltrage jacks in another order in the HDD, the CD-drivers etc for it to work...

Strange...

	30-06-2003 05:56									#9
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Oh and my old PC has a celeron 433 MHz. The new one has a 733 Mhz intel celeron. Maybe the old PSU would not give the required Watts for the 733.
Let's hope so, so it works with only a new PSU

	30-06-2003 05:57									#10
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yeah I don't know how old your power supply is from your original computer.

Newer computers have beefed up power supplies.

The voltage has to be the same, or you could fry you computer.

But watts refers to the amount of power it is putting out.

a 733 doesn't soudn that new. You wouldn't think it would require that much power. But that all depends on the motherboard really.

I know I will have to get a new power supply when I get around to upgrading my computer.

	30-06-2003 05:59									#11
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I see.

Let's hope it's the PSU
*crosses fingers*

	30-06-2003 06:00									#12
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The mother board is a Legend QPI Award 10B/F.

My old motherboard is a Chaintech something that can host up to 433 Mhz processors.

If that tells someone something.

	30-06-2003 06:05									#13
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 BTW, another strange thing. When I put the PSU back to my old PC, it wouldn't turn on at all! I had to re-insert the voltrage jacks in another order in the HDD, the CD-drivers etc for it to work... Strange...

Make sure you have the power on switch connected to the motherboard, and the reset button... otherwise it won't turn on.

Also, the reason your hard drive light flashed is because that is connected in the same area...usually HDs have their own lights on the drive, so when you are testing the drives, see if these flash (if it spins up anyway, you know it's fine).

Just thought I'd explain WHY you got that flash... it wasn't from the HD as such, it was the motherboard trying to talk to the HD.

Like I said, check out the PSU - should have "235W" or "300W" on it somewhere. On the OUTSIDE of course - don't try looking inside unless you want an electric shock.

	30-06-2003 06:10									#14
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Ok, on the outside the "new" (and burned) PSU has a whole list of specifications. Like a detail for every socket (or are they called jacks?) it has.

The old PSU doesn't have anything of that sort...


Also I'm quite confident that the hard drive did NOT spin. Just the light went on.

quote: Make sure you have the power on switch connceted to the motherboard, and the reset button... otherwise it won't turn on.

If you're talking about tne new PC I think they are connected. It does turn on for about 10 secs. Would it do that if they were not?
The old PC hs them connected for sure.

	30-06-2003 06:11									#15
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Oh yes - one other piece of advice.

When testing motherboards, don't bother connecting drives at first. Just processor, memory and graphics cards should let it boot and do a RAM test.

Maybe this "dodgy" PSU can do that much...

	30-06-2003 06:13									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Oh yes - one other piece of advice. When testing motherboards, don't bother connecting drives at first. Just processor, memory and graphics cards should let it boot and do a RAM test.

I actually thought of that and did it! During my 2nd try I had only processor, memory and graphic card and the HDD connected.

Still no signal whatsoever to the monitor and the motherboard turned on for just 10 secs or so like before.

	30-06-2003 06:16									#17
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Ok, on the outside the "new" (and burned) PSU has a whole list of specifications. Like a detail for every socket (or are they called jacks?) it has.

Look for the overall Wattage (like I said, 235W or 300W). If you want to work it out yourself, multiply the V by the A on each rail (a rail is a different voltage supply - so 3.3V rail, 5V rail, 12V rail).

To avoid the technospeak in English, I just call them connectors. None of this jack and socket puzzle...

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 The old PSU doesn't have anything of that sort...

Maybe, but the fact that it burned out suggests it wasn't up to the job. So getting beefy power supply for that board is a good idea, yes?

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 If you're talking about tne new PC I think they are connected. It does turn on for about 10 secs. Would it do that if they were not? The old PC hs them connected for sure.

You are quite right, it would not turn on without the power switch on the case being connected to the motherboard. I just add reset as well...

Oh yes, might be an idea to reset old BIOS settings from this motherboard... Check the manufacturers website for a manual... Probably not necessary BUT a good idea when faced with an unknown motherboard.

	30-06-2003 06:21									#18
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Is it possible to take faster Celeron from the suspect board, and test in on your board? Do they connect the same?

I realise it won't run at full speed... but if the processor has blown, that would explain the motherboard powering not up. If the CPU is dead, it won't start.

WOULD NOT suggest taking the "good" processor and trying it on the "unknown" board - asking for trouble, the board could kill it if the board is damaged.

	30-06-2003 06:22									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Look for the overall Wattage (like I said, 235W or 300W). If you want to work it out yourself, multiply the V by the A on each rail (a rail is a different voltage supply - so 3.3V rail, 5V rail, 12V rail).

Will do. I don't have it in font of me right now.

quote: Maybe, but the fact that it burned out suggests it wasn't up to the job. So getting beefy power supply for that board is a good idea, yes?

I was talking about the PSU of the old PC.

But yeah you're right. What I will do is to get the manual downloaded from the website of the manufacturer and then go and get a PSU exactly as it is needed.

Maybe the PSU burned because it was not up to the job.

I also recall that my uncle had upgraded his PC. So it may be that they upgraed his motherboard, processor etc but left the old PSU in place...? And it burned, eventually.

quote: Oh yes, might be an idea to reset old BIOS settings from this motherboard... Check the manufacturers website for a manual... Probably not necessary BUT a good idea when faced with an unknown motherboard.

I already visited it trying to find some advice about the problem. I downloaded the manual too


Again thank you for your advices, they are very useful and let me figure out what is the best course of action

	30-06-2003 06:25									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Is it possible to take faster Celeron from the suspect board, and test in on your board? Do they connect the same?

I thought of doing that, they do connect the same, but the old motherboard says it supports only processors up to 433mhz, not 733mhz... Will it be ok if I do it?

quote: WOULD NOT suggest taking the "good" processor and trying it on the "unknown" board - asking for trouble, the board could kill it if the board is damaged.

I did that! Luckily it didn't damage it. But it still didn't make the motherboard run for more than 10 secs or so.

	30-06-2003 06:34									#21
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I thought of doing that, they do connect the same, but the old motherboard says it supports only processors up to 433mhz, not 733mhz... Will it be ok if I do it?

It won't hurt it, although doubtful it will run at 733MHz... Mind you, it could run that fast... I just don't think it will.

It is OK to run a processor SLOWER than advertised...nobody wants to do it but it is OK. Same for RAM, you can put PC2700 (333MHz) RAM into PC2100 (266 MHz) socket and it will run fine at 266.

Even if it DOESN'T work, that doesn't confirm it as dead... just MUCH more likely.

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I did that! Luckily it didn't damage it. But it still didn't make the motherboard run for more than 10 secs or so.

I would say this is a GOOD sign. If the motherboard didn't damage it, then it shouldn't damage a new processor...

Oh yes, maybe PROCESSOR is OK but the RAM is not!

Have fun testing everything... consider yourself lucky you have 2 celeron systems to test between. Imagine if you had 1 celeron and 1 athlon... very tricky!

	30-06-2003 06:40									#22
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OK. Next test will be the new processor in the old board.

Again thanks

	30-06-2003 09:56									#23
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Does a new power supply work?