09-07-2003 20:23									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Work with me. You're still on turn 5. Not turn 6.
You calculate production for the start of turn 5 before you place a square.
HongHu hasn't lost a square in turn 5 yet. She has 5 squares. I lost one square to HongHu, I have 4 squares. Nothing is dodgy.

Kody

	09-07-2003 20:23									#32
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Dear Comrade Vev, from the end of turn summary we don't see that you have the 6 things formation. Now this may be an issue you need to talk it out with the game master (I think he does need some sleep I tell you ). No back end negotiation though.

	09-07-2003 20:27									#33
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Well it should be fixed now

	09-07-2003 20:31									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Maybe we should restart the whole thing.

	09-07-2003 20:33									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I did set my thing to buy c1
then I've noticed a new turn and bought a new square thinking someone noticed my buying of square c1.

	09-07-2003 20:38									#36
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What is exactly your thing? You also appear to have 4 things and 6 things. Wow look how many things you have.

	09-07-2003 20:39									#37
	Remove this text

quote: Turn Number: 6 Name: Nervco Nervestapler Letter: N Inital Industry: 50 Remaining Industry: 44 (It belongs to the Hive) Buy: b2, 1 Buy Alliance: Production squares: 6 Production formations: [3x2] 6 things A0 Production total: 31 Production accumulated: 66 (All belongs to the Hive) Cheating Noticed: None Transfer: None ____________________________________________ SOMEONE JUST TELL ME HOW MANY SQUARES AM I SUPPOSE TO HAVE NOW! I AM VERY VERY CONFUSED

Look at the previous turn that shows how many squares you have.
Also I was asking for turn 5 not turn 6. Turn 6 was what I was updating when I noticed you had updated your turn 4 to turn 5.

This should be your real post, which you didn't do right.
You then attempted to work on the incorrect post which is why
you ended up in such a muddle.

quote: Turn Number: 5 Name: Nervco Nervestapler Letter: N Inital Industry: 50 Remaining Industry: 45 Buy: b1, 1 Buy Alliance: Production squares: 5 Production formations: ** ** 10,A0 Production total: 15 Production accumulated: 35 Cheating Noticed: None Transfer: None ____________________________________________

After finishing turn 5 then this should be your turn 6 post.

quote: Turn Number: 6 Name: Nervco Nervestapler Letter: N Inital Industry: 50 Remaining Industry: 44 Buy: b2, 1 Buy Alliance: Production squares: 6 Production formations: ** ** ** 25,A0 Production total: 31 Production accumulated: 66 Cheating Noticed: None Transfer: None ____________________________________________

HongHu, I didn't cheat. The posts we make don't subtract the industry. I subtract the industry after the move has been accepted. That is why there was a difference in industry.

Vev, didn't cheat. He just screwed up his post entirely. Also because I thought he was finished I was already updating the turn. But it turned out he wasn't finished. I usually like to give a warning and at least 1 hour for someone to fix up their post. Vev didn't get that.

Kody

	09-07-2003 20:46									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

*Grumble*

HongHu, if look carefully you'll realise that is the way the game works :P.

End of Turn 5

quote: Current Company Statictics: End of Turn 5. Name: Nervco Nervestapler Letter: N Inital Industry: 50 Remaining Industry: 44 Production total: 15 Production accumulated: 35 Name: Kody Kites Letter: K Inital Industry: 25 Remaining Industry: 15 Production total: 4 Production accumulated: 12 Name: HongHu Healthy Herbs Letter: H Inital Industry: 68 Remaining Industry: 58 Production total: 5 Production accumulated: 15

Turn 6

quote: Turn Number: 6 Name: HongHu Healthy Herbs Letter: H Inital Industry: 68 Remaining Industry: 58 Buy: e4,1 Buy Alliance: None Production squares: 6 Production formations: Not yet, but soon Production total: 6 Production accumulated: 21 Cheating Noticed: I see that both cheating have not been punished! If the rules are not enforced I cann't promise what my next step will be! Transfer: None

Notice your remaining industry doesn't change between the end of last turn and the begining of your next turn. That's because you haven't brought anything at the start of your turn.

I was not cheating because my industry didn't change. It's just the way the game is.

	09-07-2003 20:47									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

So you claim your number is 14 instead of 11 and call it a screwed up and go not punished. The rule is the rule. If you did something that is beneficial to you which is not correct, you need to take the punishment. We didn't have a poll saying a warning should be given out before the punishment?

The industry calculation is also inconsistent. The biggest problem is that everybody edits his post so you don't have a back post to check against. Now that plus the game master mistakes ... Hmmm This is sure a big mass. I refuse to accept the explanation. Unless you give me the square I wanted.

	09-07-2003 20:54									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I never had 14 production. Vev had 14 at some stage.

*sigh*
And where did you get 11 from?

I think you really need to sleep.

Kody

	09-07-2003 21:15									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Kody I never had 14 production. Vev had 14 at some stage. *sigh* And where did you get 11 from? I think you really need to sleep. Kody

Dear Comrade Kody, the "you" means everybody there. In other words, you could change it with the word "one", you need to change the tense of the verbs accordingly though.

You should have known where I get the 11 from becuase I have included the calculation in my turn post after the cheat noticed title.

Being a game master at the same time a player is not an easy job.

Do you really want me to go to sleep?

	09-07-2003 21:19									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Kody *Grumble* Notice your remaining industry doesn't change between the end of last turn and the begining of your next turn. That's because you haven't brought anything at the start of your turn.

No. My remaining industry was 59 at the end of last turn but you record it wrong. Remember I just told you so a couple of posts ago? There is not a start of the turn. After you edit your post you have bought a "thing" already and you already are at the end of your turn.

	09-07-2003 21:21									#43
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I can actually list exactly what happened in the game right from the start off the top of my head. I've had to write it down in 3 different places every single time I make a move.

I started with 25 production

* these are end of turn values Company "Statictics"
* add +1 to industry for the player posts

Turn 0 (d7,1)
prod: 0, total: 0, Industry: 24

Turn 1 (d6,1)
prod: 1, total: 1, Industry: 23

Turn 2 (e6,1)
prod: 2, total: 3, Industry: 22

(production stays at 2 because you brought my square)

Turn 3 (e7,1)
prod: 2, total: 5, Industry: 21

Turn 4 (f6,5)
prod: 3, total: 8, Industry: 20

Turn 5 (e6,1)
prod: 4, total: 12, Industry: 15

I have not been cheating in this game.

HongHu,

I don't appreciate being heckled. Especially for mistakes I didn't make, and for being nice to the players and not docking them for mistakes immediately. I can't cheat at this game because the game master immediately notices when he cheats. It defeats the purpose of cheating. Point out mistakes I may make, but don't scream wolf when you see a shadow.

Cheating is mainly so you can have fun. Allowing the players to tell the game master is so the cheater can have a fun mad scramble fixing the discrepency before I do the turn.

Since you insist from now on if I see a mistake I'll wait 1 hour, then give the penalty. No warning anymore like I used to do.

If Kody the player makes a mistake that you notice then I will get penalised. If the game master makes a mistake it is not Kody the player cheating. The mistake will be fixed and the game will continue.

Kody

	09-07-2003 21:23									#44
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: After you edit your post you have bought a "thing" already and you already are at the end of your turn.

Wrong, after you edit the post your attempt to buy goes into the pending move section. It's called the pending move, because it hasn't occurred yet.
You can change your decision as long as the game master hasn't changed the turn.

Kody

	09-07-2003 21:38									#45
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

HongHu & Vev,

Sorry I realised I've been rather testy during the last 2 hours.

I think it was having to read through the 100 odd posts that appeared in our forum. At a rate of about 1 per minute. Also it's rather late and I was planning on heading to bed awhile ago.

Kody

	09-07-2003 21:39									#46
	Support Apolyton

Kody, my sincere apology. I was not trying to heckle you, really. I was taking this a bit far wasn't I? Trying to see how far you could go. I wasn't being serious. Just teasing you. Ok, shake hands now? Could we?

And look what a mess I made in your neat industry game. I admit now that I was doing it kind of deliberately since there were not many people who take part in this. I thought I could make more fun out of it this way.

Now I was merely trying to pointing out that your industry at turn 5 should be 15, as you correctly written down above, rather than 20. This is how I have been doing it. However, being new to your game, I'm sure I haven't been doing the right way. (May be the rule can be made a little detaily, perhaps?) I could of course wait until you post end of turn summary but I thought then we wouldn't have the back post since you would have updated your turn. Plus I thought more fight would be more fun. Ok that was wrong. I admit now.

Don't be mad at me, ok?

	09-07-2003 21:42									#47
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Kody HongHu & Vev, Sorry I realised I've been rather testy during the last 2 hours. I think it was having to read through the 100 odd posts that appeared in our forum. At a rate of about 1 per minute. Also it's rather late and I was planning on heading to bed awhile ago. Kody

Hah now you admit that you do need to sleep! Ok I promise I'll stop teasing now.

	09-07-2003 21:56									#48
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

HongHu,

Remember my rules used to be double the length they are now. But after getting 4 comments of utter confusion I deleted alot of the detail.

The remaining industry you post in your new turn should the same as from the end of company statictics. You might want to double check first that the game master hasn't made a mistake as I do sometimes forget to update somethings.

No I'm not mad, just too tired to realise you were joking. If I was mad it would be difficult for me to apologise.

I can't believe you and vev managed to make me make ... how many posts? I figure I've made about 70 posts today. My usual is like 5.
*shakes head*

Kody

-------------------

Hey cool

A: 12 | D: 99 | M: 99 | HP: 97

I got my 99 move back

Kody

--------------------

Heh just checked my IRC window.

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[03:00am][@Kody(+iw)][Mail: 32]

32 emails from apolyton in the last 2 hours.

Kody

	09-07-2003 22:05									#49
	Support Apolyton

quote: Exactly how many moves are done from the start to turn 6?

6 moves at the start of turn 6

Kody


Sorry for some reason I was replying to a post a 2nd time.
I'm just going to go to sleep now.

Kody

	09-07-2003 22:17									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Kody HongHu, Remember my rules used to be double the length they are now. But after getting 4 comments of utter confusion I deleted alot of the detail.

Yeh, I agree. Actually I like "learning by doing" more. More rules just means that I could nick picking more.

quote: No I'm not mad, just too tired to realise you were joking. If I was mad it would be difficult for me to apologise.

Looks like we have apologized about the same time. Isn't that a nice coincident?

quote: I can't believe you and vev managed to make me make ... how many posts? I figure I've made about 70 posts today. My usual is like 5. *shakes head* ------------------- Hey cool A: 12 | D: 99 | M: 99 | HP: 97 I got my 99 move back Kody --------------------

At least something positive came out from all these didn't it?

	10-07-2003 04:19									#51
	Suffering from ads?

Yeah learning while you play is more fun.
That's why I haven't been enforcing the cheating rules. So people can easily play knowing they will make mistakes and without worrying about penalities.

Turn 7 ready.

Kody

	10-07-2003 05:54									#52
	Remove this text

I'm keeping my history trace to avoid future confusion.

	10-07-2003 08:07									#53
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Kody I can actually list exactly what happened in the game right from the start off the top of my head. I've had to write it down in 3 different places every single time I make a move. I started with 25 production * these are end of turn values Company "Statictics" * add +1 to industry for the player posts Turn 0 (d7,1) prod: 0, total: 0, Industry: 24 Turn 1 (d6,1) prod: 1, total: 1, Industry: 23 Turn 2 (e6,1) prod: 2, total: 3, Industry: 22 (production stays at 2 because you brought my square) Turn 3 (e7,1) prod: 2, total: 5, Industry: 21 Turn 4 (f6,5) prod: 3, total: 8, Industry: 20 Turn 5 (e6,1) prod: 4, total: 12, Industry: 15

Before we continue, how about each of us write down something like this to make sure the numbers so far are correct? I'll do it tomorrow when I regain some brain power.

	10-07-2003 08:08									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Kody Yeah learning while you play is more fun. That's why I haven't been enforcing the cheating rules. So people can easily play knowing they will make mistakes and without worrying about penalities. Turn 7 ready. Kody

So is the cheating part still there? I enjoyed it. But the question now is how do you differentiate deliberate cheating with simple mistakes?

	10-07-2003 08:12									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

When I notice that many of the mistakes are subtle. Mistakes usually aren't subtle. Also after a player has played a while I'll stop making allowances.

Even if I notice cheating I don't need to do anything.

Kody

	10-07-2003 20:07									#56
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well that's the problem. Say if I cheated (I have been using this word as a good word, you know a fun part of the game) and somebody noticed it. What should they do? Should they first wait to see if I correct it? But if it was a mistake how would I know if nobody reminds me? Then when somebody finally point out then would I be risk free because I could just say oh it was a mistake?

Another thing, the remaining industry, I used to understand that players calculate it themselves, and so they could cheat there too if they want. And if something falls off like he made a mistake and didn't display enough money then the game master makes adjustment. But sounds like now the game master is responsible for all the calculations and the player is only responsible to tell which square he buys? Sounds to me the cheating opportunity will be kind of limited this way.

	11-07-2003 02:53									#57
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ok, my history, as far as I remember. If I was wrong please let me know.

Turn 0 (a2,1)
prod: 0, total: 0, Industry: 67

Turn 1 (b3,1)
prod: 1, total: 1, Industry: 66

Turn 2 (e6,5)
prod: 2, total: 3, Industry: 61

Turn 3 (d5,1)
prod: 3, total: 6, Industry: 60

Turn 4 (e5,5)
prod: 4, total: 10, Industry: 59

Turn 5 (f5,1)
prod: 5, total: 15, Industry: 58

Turn 6 (e4, 1)
Prod: 5, total: 20, Industry:57

This is also end of turn industry.

	11-07-2003 02:59									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have question about Vev's production 14, 15, 31. Also have question why your production is 15 instead of 25.

The production 6 is my mistake, for forgetting that you have buy back a square. That is a mistake. I swear! (Is that how we do it?)

	11-07-2003 06:34									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

4 + 10
5 + 10
6 + 25

	11-07-2003 07:12									#60
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I thought you cannot double count a square.