02-07-2003 10:49									#1
	Should we consider sending any "Suicide Galley's"? Put an end to popups!

A "Suicide Galley" is a Galley that attempts to cross sea or ocean tiles before the required advances are found.

If a Galley, without the appropriate advancements belonging to a Civ, ends a turn in either a sea or an ocean tile it has a 50% chance of sinking before the next turn.

The benefits of such a move is, of course, contact across the ocean to other Civ's. More contacts equal more trade possibilities/opportunities.

	02-07-2003 11:09									#2
	Suffering from ads?

No, because we don't even suspect where land might be. Only once we do should we start to consider it.

	02-07-2003 11:13									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I wouldn't want to send either of the 2 Galley that we planned. I would like to plan to builed either 1 or 2 for this purpose though. We could find an uncolonized land mass, or the other Civ's, or both??

I would risk 30 or 60 shields for that after our war with CDG is done.

	02-07-2003 13:00									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It's probably too early to decide. Once we got the map from GCA, we will have a better idea. Who knows, perhaps there are visible land on the Eastern edges of GCA ?

IMHO, I think we should consider :
1. whether we want to speed up the building of the Galley, so that we can quickly get to the land on the Western edge of CFC. One way is to add one of our existing worker to Hispanica's population, so that we will get more shields. Alternative is to chop down one of the forest beside the city.
2. if we want to go on a suicide mission, I suggest going eastwards from GCA. The odds of having land at the top and bottom of the map is higher.

	02-07-2003 13:05									#5
	Support Apolyton

Too early to decide. For now: no.

	02-07-2003 14:52									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

BFM basically sums up my thoughts. Suicide Galleys are great, but currently to use them would be wasteful, and we are attempting to do enough as it is with stretched resources. We should focus on the plan at hand and its completion before spending any resources on things other than preparing for the future war.

Once our Galleys have explored all they can and there is no further use for them, this would be fine. As it is let's keep going with what we are doing until we have explored everywhere else we can reach.

	02-07-2003 16:17									#7
	Support Apolyton

Suicide galleys IMHO are wasteful unless you find you need them because no other land is accessible by staying on the coast. Since we don't know enough of the map yet do know this, I say wait.

	02-07-2003 19:27									#8
	Remove this text

I say wait until we find out what the land west of CFC holds. It could be access to other civs, or a jumping off point for our galley. If we're gonna send one out, lets make it count.

	02-07-2003 20:22									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Only if we haven't got another use for them...

	02-07-2003 20:50									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'd have to go with No. As others have said, there are more usefull things we can be doing with these galleys in the meantime. If we happen to come across something that may warrent it, then we can reconsider the proprosal.

	02-07-2003 23:10									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I agree with most others in this thread. Once we know more of what the coastline looks like and what that island type thingy by CFC is then we can go and decide if we want to send out galleys to the far reaches of the globe...

	02-07-2003 23:23									#12
	Support Apolyton

I like suicide galleys- While the probability of success is fairly low, the benefits of a successful suicide galley are substantial. At this point, it appears that, until navigation, the only way our continent will make contact with the rest of the world is through the use of suicide galleys/caravels.

One possible compromise solution would be to send a stack of 2 or more galleys around the coast of our continent and fortifying the stack at the end of every turn. By doing this we would have a line of sight of 3 from the square that the galleys end each turn and be more likely to see more distant sea or coast squares, which could indicate that there is a passage to another land mass- then, at that point, we could decide whether or not we want to risk suicide. (If we were to use only a single galley, we would not be able to fortify after all of the movement is used up.)

Last edited by Stinkynuts on 02-07-2003 at 23:38

	03-07-2003 00:22									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We should explore as much as we can with our galleys before we use suicide galleys.

If we run out of safe exploration routes though, then we should consider sending them out on less "safe" missions. I wouldn't use the term suicide though...might lead to mutiny......

	03-07-2003 02:38									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

::blinks and makes a note::
::glances at Stinky::

Learn something new every day..... Thanks Stink.

	03-07-2003 02:50									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Stinkynuts I like suicide galleys- While the probability of success is fairly low, the benefits of a successful suicide galley are substantial. At this point, it appears that, until navigation, the only way our continent will make contact with the rest of the world is through the use of suicide galleys/caravels. One possible compromise solution would be to send a stack of 2 or more galleys around the coast of our continent and fortifying the stack at the end of every turn. By doing this we would have a line of sight of 3 from the square that the galleys end each turn and be more likely to see more distant sea or coast squares, which could indicate that there is a passage to another land mass- then, at that point, we could decide whether or not we want to risk suicide. (If we were to use only a single galley, we would not be able to fortify after all of the movement is used up.)

I agree. The potential benefits far outweigh the costs.

But, we'd have to find the right situation. No sense in sending Galleys off to the wild blue yonder while we're in the middle of fighting CDG. All in perspective...

	03-07-2003 03:11									#16
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Stinkynuts One possible compromise solution would be to send a stack of 2 or more galleys around the coast of our continent and fortifying the stack at the end of every turn. By doing this we would have a line of sight of 3 from the square that the galleys end each turn and be more likely to see more distant sea or coast squares, which could indicate that there is a passage to another land mass- then, at that point, we could decide whether or not we want to risk suicide. (If we were to use only a single galley, we would not be able to fortify after all of the movement is used up.)

Stinky - I'm not quite sure I get this. What are you proposing?

Are you saying that, after moving Galleys in a stack you can fortify after they have moved all their spaces and this then somehow allows greater vision?

If so I learn TWO somethings new every day.

	03-07-2003 03:58									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, that's what i'm saying- if you right click on two or more galleys and select fortify all, they will have a line of sight of 3 from the square that they are in at the end of the turn (even after they have used up all of their movement). Then just unfortify, move 3, and repeat. The extra line of sight doesn't actually show up until the beginning of the next turn.

	03-07-2003 08:07									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I wouldnt make one yet. POSSIBLY after the war with CDG. Otherwise no.

	03-07-2003 11:10									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Trip I agree. The potential benefits far outweigh the costs. But, we'd have to find the right situation. No sense in sending Galleys off to the wild blue yonder while we're in the middle of fighting CDG. All in perspective...

Did I not say after the war with CDG?

	03-07-2003 13:54									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Stinkynuts Yes, that's what i'm saying- if you right click on two or more galleys and select fortify all, they will have a line of sight of 3 from the square that they are in at the end of the turn (even after they have used up all of their movement). Then just unfortify, move 3, and repeat. The extra line of sight doesn't actually show up until the beginning of the next turn.

That's a bug then!
I furthermore suspect that with "unfortify, move 3, and repeat" you mean "unfortify, move 3, and repeat on the next turn". Right?

	03-07-2003 15:52									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Way too early to even think about it. No, No, No!

MoI E_T

	03-07-2003 17:04									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Stinkynuts Yes, that's what i'm saying- if you right click on two or more galleys and select fortify all, they will have a line of sight of 3 from the square that they are in at the end of the turn (even after they have used up all of their movement). Then just unfortify, move 3, and repeat. The extra line of sight doesn't actually show up until the beginning of the next turn.

This sounds like a bug/exploit to me. Well done for spotting it though, I'd never been aware of that before.

	03-07-2003 22:48									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster That's a bug then! I furthermore suspect that with "unfortify, move 3, and repeat" you mean "unfortify, move 3, and repeat on the next turn". Right?

Right- it's not infinite movement. Normally a galley has a line of sight of 2. When it ends its turn fortified, it has a line of sight of 3 when the next turn begins. There is no way to fortify a single galley after its movement has been used up, but you can fortify 2 or more galleys after their movement has been used up.

	04-07-2003 02:12									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think the extended sight when fortified for ships thing is intentional, that is not a bug.

What does sound iffy is using a 2nd galley and fortify all to fortify after you've used all your movement up.