02-07-2003 16:48									#1
	Do any ape species have suicidal infants? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Think about it, human infants are suicidal. I can't figure out how humans evolved. These are the main things that confuse me.
They try to put everything in their mouth. Most animals are instinctively programmed to only eat what they see their parents or other animals eat.
They make lots of noise. If a predator was nearby the infant would be eaten.
They don't stay in one place. Most young animals stay in the den while the parent(s) get food. If a young bobcat leaves the den it could easily be killed by a cougar or another bobcat.
I think humans were planted by aliens for some reason.

	02-07-2003 16:50									#2
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Yes, homo sapiens

	02-07-2003 16:55									#3
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Besides us!

	02-07-2003 16:58									#4
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Homo neanderthalensis

	02-07-2003 17:00									#5
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Ape species that do not have a species name that starts with homo.

	02-07-2003 17:03									#6
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what do ape species start with? Rama?

	02-07-2003 17:06									#7
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well, now that you put it that way, we humans as a species seem to be stupid and suicidal on the whole.

when bad habits like that aren't broken early, you have people jumping out of planes, throwing explosive devices at each other, and drinking noxious substances that inhibit natural behaviours...

	02-07-2003 17:06									#8
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I don't know. What I mean is any species that is not in a direct line of evolutionary descent to or from humans that could still be classified as an ape.

	02-07-2003 17:08									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed well, now that you put it that way, we humans as a species seem to be stupid and suicidal on the whole. when bad habits like that aren't broken early, you have people jumping out of planes, throwing explosive devices at each other, and drinking noxious substances that inhibit natural behaviours...

That's my point. How did we survive this long with these behavoirs?

	02-07-2003 17:11									#10
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god.

	02-07-2003 17:15									#11
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Yeah, and look what happened to his species. According to the Christians, the Muslims, and the Jews there's only one left.

	02-07-2003 17:44									#12
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Other animals probably do have infants that behave in ways likely to get them killed. The difference is that they are subject to predation, etc to a much higher degree than humans so their infants that are prone to less safe behaviour do actually get killed.

Back when human infant mortality, and birthrates, were a lot higher than now infants prone to unsafe behaviour were born in just as high a proportion as now and they usually died. Now they don't die. In a few generations it may become clear how many of these unsafe behaviours are genetically inherited and will become more widespread in succeeding generations.

	02-07-2003 17:47									#13
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What makes a species successful is having the rate of enough individuals surviving to reproduce high enough to maintain or increase numbers. You don't necessarily have to be smart to achieve that, just breed fast enough.

	02-07-2003 17:47									#14
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So the more we protect our infants the more suicidal we'll become. I guess that means we'll die before we can threaten any aliens.

	02-07-2003 21:05									#15
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All young animas need to explore their wolrd as a way to gain practical experience in living. You also miss the fact that while kids might put a lot of things in thier mouths, they are unlikely to be alone most of that time, given how utterly helpless humans are well past 12 months of life.

	02-07-2003 21:17									#16
	Re: Do any ape species have suicidal infants? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by geeslaka They make lots of noise. If a predator was nearby the infant would be eaten.

This is actually a "positive" evolutionary trait. Human parents can sucessfully defend their young against preditors, so thats not an issue. A baby who makes more noise is more likely to get their parents attention. While a human parent is more likely to not get around to feeding or attend to the needs of a silent baby, the loader one is likely to get the parents attention and therefore be more likely to survive. The natural evolutionary consequence of this is for babies to evolved to be able to scream loudly at the top of their lungs. Note, baby birds generally make loud noise to get their parents attention when they are hungry.

	02-07-2003 21:27									#17
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Seaturtle infants suicidally leave a warm sandy hole and traverse a killing zone beach in order to get into the wet sea.

I don't have anything about ape child-rearing practices underhand, but something tells me that chimps don't grow up into rambunctious and curious adults by having a repressed childhood.