03-07-2003 07:28									#1
	Turn 78 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Researching Code of Laws at 70%, done in 2 turns
- Luxury Slider at 0%
- 121 gold cash, -1 gpt (will change due to growth)


Urgent questions & tasks:
Not much


Unit movement & actions:
(orders to be supplied by MoW)
All of our units are now on our side of the border. We will concentrate on farming Barbarian Encampments to increase our cash reserves for later upgrades. Units will stay in cities until more camps respawn so there is a greater chance of respawning (more unseen terrain). Somecities will be used as barb bait to draw barbs sooner.


Economy:
Apolyton building a Settler (3) - (Turn 3 of 5 scheduled)
Mingapulco building a Settler (1) - (Turn 5 of 5 scheduled)
Banatopia building a Settler (4) - (Turn 3 of 6 scheduled)
Incensity building Barracks (4) - (Turn 7 of 9 scheduled)
Tripoli building Merc (3) - (Turn 7 of 9 scheduled)
Hispanica building galley (7) - (Turn 9 of 13 scheduled)

WF:
Apolyton: 3-4-5-13-?? at start, Change to 2-3-4-12-13
Mingapulco: 1-2-3-10 at start, NC.
Bananatopia: 2-4-8-?? at start, Change to 2-6-8-19 (working the game).
Incensity: 5-7-17 at start, Change to 6-7-17. This will delay the growth of this city for just 1 turn, but the tile pressure will be reduced a bit next turn. THIS WILL NOT DELAY AN SCHEDUALED BUILDS!!
Tripoli: 2-?? at start, Change to 2-20.
Hispanica: 11 at start, NC.

Workers:
Worker1: 'Dan' clearing jungle (2) at Bananatopia 2 (WF #5)
Worker2: 'Monkee' clearing Jungle (2) at Bananatopia 2 (WF #5)
Worker3: 'panag' move SE (3) to Poly #1 (Inc #6) and Road then Mine that hill.
Worker4: 'EVC' move to Mingapulco #5, 2 turns travel time. You can either move 4 (then 4 next turn) or 8-4-4 (then 2 next turn).
Worker5: 'Dejon' move to Mingapulco #5, 2 turns travel time. You can either move 4 (then 4 next turn) or 8-4-4 (then 2 next turn).
Worker6: 'MrWIA' clearing jungle (5) at Mingapulco 3 (WF #4)
Worker7: 'Rush' clearing Jungle (5) at Mingapulco 3 (WF #4)


Diplomacy:
CDG: NAP/Border treaty (to turn 109).
GCA: NAP in effect (to Turn 89).
CFC: NAP in effect (to Turn 83).



Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except in WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 04-07-2003 at 05:00

	03-07-2003 08:16									#2
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Just a note turn 59 has already passed.

	03-07-2003 12:15									#3
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He means it started on turn 59. It ends on or during turn 89.

	03-07-2003 12:19									#4
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Fixed.

	03-07-2003 16:11									#5
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I'll have the rest of my orders posted later.

E_T

	04-07-2003 01:25									#6
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Just a little something I cooked up. I was able to have all civs with their appropriate colors reach these values quite easily, changing only 1 or 0 tiles from how I had it in my simulation in every case.

All numbers are exact. Colors match in-game civ estimates.

GNP (commerce before corruption):
?, ?, 28, 27, 26, 23, 22, 20

MFG (shields after waste):
?, ?, 27, 22, 19, 19, 14, 11

My previous research shows that CDG is most likely at 27 GNP and 14 MFG. These numbers show this to be true or very near to it. I was able to match up the values for CFC and GCA by switching 1 tile as well.

	04-07-2003 01:44									#7
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Aaaaaand... the recent scores from the last 30 or so turns.

Oh, and don't ask me where that dip in the average scores line comes from. I have no idea how it got there or how to get rid of it.

	04-07-2003 04:21									#8
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Sleeping giant? I don't think that works.

Dragon 'sleeping' on hoard of gold? Yes, that's more like it.

	04-07-2003 05:05									#9
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MoI Orders are posted now, and I know that CDG has the save....

Because of 3 cities growing this turn, Incensity will have to have it's growth delayed by 1 turn, but things will get back into some shape after the settler from Mingapulco is built the next turn.

MoI E_T

	04-07-2003 05:13									#10
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CDG has sent the save on, we will get it soon from CGN.

I'm going to work soon, so nye or Dubya will have to play it.

	04-07-2003 08:09									#11
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Just in case anyone wants to see it, I have an exact replica of our turn 78 position, excepting some name mistakes and such which I'm too lazy to go and fix.

So in case anyone wants to test economic stuff, military buildups or whatever else, you can go ahead and do that.

Edit #1: NOTE: This is not the same file as in the MOW RMW thread.

Edit #2: NOTE #2: For some reason when you end the first turn, it takes a REALLY long time. Don't worry though, it works eventually.

Edit #3: Okay, I went ahead and fixed everything I think I needed to. It should now be 100% accurate.

Last edited by Trip on 04-07-2003 at 08:57

	04-07-2003 08:15									#12
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The biggest thing to report is that GCA have offered Mysticism and are very much hoping to get HBR in return. That was discussed this morning by the FAM, but as far as I know, no decision has been made by the Consuls. I guess that leaves it up to me, as this is time critical for GCA's prospects vs CDG.

Oh, and GCA's cities are all intact. No signs of pop rushing either, for whatever that's worth.

CoL in one turn at 50% science. +6 gpt.

Still no sign of any stinkin' barbs.

MZ will be along in a moment to argue for the trade, I am sure. Is anyone opposed to it? I will allow about an hour for this to be discussed.

	04-07-2003 08:26									#13
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We are trying to accept this deal with them as long as they allow passage of the Princess through their lands.

They are understandably very paranoid at the moment, If we do this trade, Lucky assured us that there would most likely be no problem with passage. Frankly I say we do the deal, a couple of Immortals bonked by horsies is in our interests.

	04-07-2003 08:34									#14
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Why would they want horses instead of swords, and why does CDG still not have HBR from CFC? One would think that CDG would get CFC to share, wouldn't one?

Perhaps they want a mix, as I do. This is more effective overall, generally. Horse also can get multiple shots at the approaching Immortals while always scampering back out of reach if you do it right and have some luck.

Who the heck knows what makes these guys do what they do. I am just not completely discounting a ruse yet.

	04-07-2003 08:49									#15
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Why would they want horses instead of swords, and why does CDG still not have HBR from CFC? One would think that CDG would get CFC to share, wouldn't one?

From what we've heard from both CDG and CFC, they don't seem to be collaberating at all with these wars. CFC was very surprised that CDG attacked GCA. If they've kept each other in the dark, then it's little surprise that they haven't discussed such things.

	04-07-2003 08:58									#16
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CDG is unpredictable. They say nothing to noone. I have yet to receive response to a PM to Louis about one week ago so frankly this lack of communication doesn't surprise me.

Nothing from CDG ever should suprise us. If it is all a ruse we'll soon find out but it seems we are prepared for everything.

As for the mix, I agree with NYE, horsies might not have the punch of a sword but the have the avantage of mobility and retreat which han lesser their losses. I like to base my armies on swords but always have some horses for tactical purposes.

	04-07-2003 09:49									#17
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Actions:

Diplomatic:
GCA offer of Myst, unaccepted. Offered HBR, accepted.

Unit movement & actions:
N01 'MerZenary' fortified on Mingapulco 8
N02 'Mao' fortified on Tripoli 8
N03 'DarkCloud' fortified on game tile
N04 'Togas' fortified on Incensity 4
N05 'Enamel' fortified on Mingapulco 8
N06 'n6' fortified on game tile

S01 'jagjef' carried by G01
S02 'Flash' moves 2 1 1 to the central reserve (while he waits for a ship)

W02 'BigFree' fortified on Hispanica 2
W03 'Alva' fortified on Tripoli 8
W04 'Theseus' fortified on Mingapulco 9
W05 'BFW' fortified in Apolyton
W06 'Hagbart' fortified on Mingapulco 9
W07 'WhiteBandit' fortified on hill 1 1 1 from Mingapulco
W08 'not_panag' fortified on the Knob 2 2 from Mingapulco
W09 'PanzerWarrior' moves 6 9 9 towards Incensity on GoTo
W10 'Scourge' fortified on Mingapulco 9
W11 'Hawkeye' fortified in Mingapulco
W12 'Warrior With No Name' skips turn along the coast (border patrol)
W13 'Steelfist' fortified in Bananatopia
W14 'Grog' fortified in Apolyton

G01 'AS Princess of Apolyton' [cargo S01] moves 2 1 4. More ocean.

Economy:
Apolyton building a Settler (3) - (Turn 3 of 5 scheduled)
Mingapulco building a Settler (1) - (Turn 5 of 5 scheduled)
Banatopia building a Settler (4) - (Turn 3 of 6 scheduled)
Incensity building Barracks (3) - (Turn 7 of 9 scheduled)
Tripoli building Merc (3) - (Turn 7 of 9 scheduled)
Hispanica building galley (7) - (Turn 9 of 13 scheduled)

WF:
Apolyton: 3-4-5-12-13 at start, Changed to 2-3-4-12-13
Mingapulco: 1-2-3-10 at start, NC.
Bananatopia: 2-4-6-8 at start, Changed to 2-6-8-19 (working the game).
Incensity: 5-7-17 at start, Change to 6-7-17.
Tripoli: 1-2 at start, Change to 2-20.
Hispanica: 11 at start, NC.

Workers:
Worker1: 'Dan' clearing jungle (2) at Bananatopia 2 (WF #5)
Worker2: 'Monkee' clearing Jungle (2) at Bananatopia 2 (WF #5)
Worker3: 'panag' moved 3 (SE)
Worker4: 'EVC' moved 4 (W) towards Mingapulco #5 on GoTo
Worker5: 'Dejon' moved 4 (W) towards Mingapulco #5 on GoTo
Worker6: 'MrWIA' clearing jungle (4) at Mingapulco 3 (WF #4)
Worker7: 'Rush' clearing Jungle (4) at Mingapulco 3 (WF #4)

Sliders:
Research set to 50%, +5 gpt. CoL in 1.
Tested to assure that settler from Mingapulco next turn does not delay CoL.

	04-07-2003 10:18									#19
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Turn 79 simulation here.

From now on I'll be updating the simulation turn-by-turn for anyone who wants to keep an eye on such things.

Bugfix: Minor problem with the turn 78 simulation in that Bananatopia didn't have as much food as it should (because of the Granary).

	04-07-2003 10:26									#20
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Powergraph here:

We only went up 1 point this turn, and we weren't even the ones who lost a city.

	04-07-2003 12:43									#21
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Thanks to a little pointer from Trip, I checked out the Mfg Goods for other civs via variation of our own values.

Here they are:

? ? 28(Us), 24, 23, 20, 19, 11

This is consistent with last turn (with one shield increases in places) except for the disappearance of the 14 from last turn and the appearance of the 24. As 14 is the estimated Mfg Goods for CDG from Trip's sims and he also estimated they would be at 26 in their GA, I can conclude with a reasonable degree of certainty that

this is clear evidence that CDG has reached their GA as of this turn

The dumbasses. This also means they have attacked a non-barb for sure, highly likely GCA. This means the war is not a trick unless it is an elaborate one.

	04-07-2003 13:13									#22
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Would attacking a worker trigger it? I'm not sure, I've never tried.

	04-07-2003 14:51									#23
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I think it was GCA atacking CDG's Immortal stack with a Charriot that set off CDG's GA.

Attacking a worker does not work.

	04-07-2003 19:30									#24
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Either way, they are (from all indications) now in their GA. They said that they would have Liturature in 8 turns, does this jive with the sim results? If that is so, unless they build a Library perbuild somewhere, they can start to build librairies in 8 turns. And with them being scientific, they will actually be cheaper than Temples.

So the question is, how soon could they have Libraries on the border cities??

E_T

	04-07-2003 21:03									#25
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Fact is that a second civ now has Literature (someone please check whether it's one of the civs we know).

	04-07-2003 21:20									#26
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Nope, and I posted in the Area X thread about it.

E_T

	04-07-2003 21:48									#27
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Trip, I don't know how this will effect the sim, but worker tasks will be "completed" 1 turn sooner in PBEM compared to the sim. The only thing that I can recommend is to have Maonkee and Dan finish this task and then have either of them skip their turn.

Also, we don't know (but I really hope that it is) if that jungle is going to be a bonus tile. My orders will be reflecting that possiblity.

E_T

	04-07-2003 23:17									#28
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Trip, I don't know how this will effect the sim, but worker tasks will be "completed" 1 turn sooner in PBEM compared to the sim. The only thing that I can recommend is to have Maonkee and Dan finish this task and then have either of them skip their turn. Also, we don't know (but I really hope that it is) if that jungle is going to be a bonus tile. My orders will be reflecting that possiblity. E_T

Hmmm. You're right.

Guess I'll have to periodically redo the sim in the editor. Rats.

	04-07-2003 23:28									#29
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Either way, they are (from all indications) now in their GA. They said that they would have Liturature in 8 turns, does this jive with the sim results? If that is so, unless they build a Library perbuild somewhere, they can start to build librairies in 8 turns. And with them being scientific, they will actually be cheaper than Temples. So the question is, how soon could they have Libraries on the border cities?? E_T

According to the sim, they can get Literature in 8 turns at 100% science while under GA. If they're not under a GA, it would take them 12 turns minimum.