03-07-2003 14:51									#1
	ISDG Rules Poll at 1BC: Rule #2 Increase the size of your Attachments

How do we vote on this proposal?

quote: Here we go again! Okay, the voting rules will be the same on these polls as they were on the previous. Only a team captain or a recognized official from each civ may vote. Yes/No, Yea/Nay, whatever as long as there is no doubt about your vote. We will still need 2/3rds, or in this case 6 of 8 positive votes. A team may post an abstain if they don't wish to vote. If this is the case, the abstain will not be counted as a NO vote. The poll will need 2/3rds of the non-abstain votes to pass. I would urge any team that does not wish to vote to abstain so that we know that your team has been spoken for. Here is the rule addition in question: 2. A team whose counter clock drops below 0 hours and either does not appeal or whose appeal has been denied by a majority vote of the teams or by the ruling admin would be subject to a penalty of loss of 1 turns. Loss of turn is defined as the ruling admin opening the file, skipping to the end of the turn with no changes made to the game, ending the turn, and sending to the next team. On each subsequent offense, the number of turns penalized would increase by 1. At the end of the penalty turns, the turn counter clock for the offending team would be immediately reset to 48 hours and resume counting down as normal upon receipt of the game on their next turn.

	03-07-2003 16:57									#2
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And won't it be fun to NOT play Civ and give other teams a chance to scream and kick up a fuss and police timeclocks?

NO.

	03-07-2003 22:16									#3
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**** 'em

	04-07-2003 04:03									#4
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Big Fat No.

	04-07-2003 04:50									#5
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This could so completely f*ck up a game for everyone, not just the team affected...

	04-07-2003 04:54									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

There are a small number of people voting yes, but it seems they dare not state their reasons for doing so (or something similar). I would be very interested in hearing from any who favour this. PMs would be welcome.

	04-07-2003 06:59									#7
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This will only effect firaxis. They will miss in insane number of turns and the teams around them will get all their citys.

	04-07-2003 07:33									#8
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Well, Firaxis has been playing relatively fast, It's been CDG that has been the slow one of late.

this is a definate no

E_T

	04-07-2003 11:41									#9
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I'd actually like to know the reasons why not.

I haven't voted yet, but I currently intend to vote YES. I have followed the discussion at the UN, and the issue of the delay in turns is both serious and a worry to ALL teams. I agree with a measure put in place to get teams to pass on the save ASAP, and this has been the best one so far. The only qualm I have with voting yes right now is that this whole issue came up only because of Firaxis' loss of time, and who knows what their time commitments are. Now that CDG has entered this realm as well, I think we do need to make a rule.

Does anyone have any better ideas? And if not, are you voting no because you don't mind the lengthy turns delay? The delay wastes everyone's time and frays a lot of nerves. I think it must be curtailed and a rule like this one is needed.

	04-07-2003 12:56									#10
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Does anyone have any better ideas? And if not, are you voting no because you don't mind the lengthy turns delay? The delay wastes everyone's time and frays a lot of nerves. I think it must be curtailed and a rule like this one is needed.

I'm voting no because even if I wish the game ran smoothly with turns arriving every 24-48 hours, I don't see a way how to enforce this. The penalties suggested are just plain unacceptable for me. There is the RL... as ISDG is just a game, the RL shall always take precedence. Be it Firaxis, be it CDG... I am quite sure they have reasons to delay their turns. And then there are game-related crisis. Just remember GS during their war with Vox ... I am sure they would already be either "skipping" turns now or having their leader play turns without "proper discussion" - and the whole fun would be gone for them. I remember Theseus calling the period of the GS-Vox war one of the most intense gaming experiences in his life. Would he still be able to say so if GS was forced to rush their turns in ~10 turns from the moment war started?

I believe that the best way to handle this is to be patient and to informally agree that if there is a team constantly (like for dozens of turns, with no good reason) delaying turns, everybody else will ally against them and wipe them out to make the game proceed faster.

Otherwise, I have no problem waiting a day or two longer for the turn. Once I start having one, I will know there is something wrong with me.

	04-07-2003 14:05									#11
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quote: Otherwise, I have no problem waiting a day or two longer for the turn. Once I start having one, I will know there is something wrong with me.

Well said.

	04-07-2003 14:18									#12
	Remove this text

Oh, sure, I wouldn't mind a day or two between saves either, but we haven't just had that - we have had the save delayed by ONE team for several days recently! This will only get worse if there are no attempts made to push the issue, especially if they can do so at leisure without any repurcussions whatsoever in the long run.

Wouldn't an extra few days to think be great for that knotty issue? We can't just think of ourselves here and neither should any other team. Maybe we don't need this level of control just yet, but I'm glad the issue has come up. We do need to insist teams post when they will be unable to meet the deadline, and urge them as strongly as possible to stick to the deadlines. We aren't lazy in the slightest, but some teams will be. Remember CDG's excuse of a thunderstorm? We need to prevent that sort of excuse as much as we can.

I am voting NO to this rule as it stands, but I agree very strongly with the idea.

	04-07-2003 14:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Remember CDG's excuse of a thunderstorm? We need to prevent that sort of excuse as much as we can.

Oh indeed, that was absurd. A swift and brutal war would solve the CDG problem, however.

	04-07-2003 14:35									#14
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Oh indeed, that was absurd. A swift and brutal war would solve the CDG problem, however.

vote no to proposal

vote yes to crushing CDG

I actually see this as a viable excuse for war: "We have decided to rid the world of your pathetic civilization due to your extremely long turns. Our words are backed by some nasty bananas"

	04-07-2003 14:39									#15
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I would like to see the game being played on a more consitent basis by some teams.

I don't know what type of rule or punishment that would be fitting though. The game is supposed to be fun. RL is way more important than this game, no matter how many people are involved.

But, if the other teams are letting the turns go unplayed because of strife not associated with RL concerns, then they need a kick in the pants. Such as CDG's mock revolution. Each team should have at least 3 people who can play the turn and not just go into 'lock down' mode when and if a team President/Leader resigns. I would like to see more comments in a "Turn Comment Thread" were Teams comment on the status of the turn so as to let us know that they have it and are having so and so problems playing it. Just general courtesey letting us know what is going on.