04-07-2003 01:48									#1
	Now you see why I use *.txt format Put an end to popups!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3037760.stm

Thank god for systems that allow me to keep my civil liberties!

	04-07-2003 01:51									#2
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Indeed. It is a supreme infringement of our civil liberties when our word processor timestamps and records when we modify a document.

	04-07-2003 01:53									#3
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Its a supreme infringement if people can trace that without our knowledge.

Lets not turn this into a windows vs linux thread, kword formats for example do the same, and linux stores info in /proc and /var, and the security issues of both systems are irrelevant, I see this as a pan-OS issue.

	04-07-2003 01:56									#4
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Duh... I don't use text to keep that info private. I just don't have a CMOS battery in the computer...

Means I have to change BIOS settings every time I restart... and the computer NEVER knows what day it is... but there are other benefits too. See if you can work out what they are.

	04-07-2003 01:57									#5
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Its a supreme infringement if people can trace that without our knowledge.

How is it without your knowledge?

Why do you think it asks for your initials and full name when you first install it?
What do you think all of that information is there for all to see in File->Properties?

The only people complaining are dumbasses who've been caught with their pants down by plaigurizing someone else's work.

This is in no way, shape, or form, an infringement of civil liberties.

It happens in your OS, too, when you create a file, your username and the time it created is recorded.

Down with filesystems.

	04-07-2003 01:58									#6
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How often do you restart cruddy?

If you really want control, use gnupg!

	04-07-2003 01:59									#7
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/proc is a virtual file system, where several system settings are mirrored. There's nothing being "stored".

I use the simple notepad (or a programming IDE) all the time for simple notes. I use a word processor (OpenOffice, usually) only, if I need to print out a formatted document. Happens twice, thrice a year.

	04-07-2003 02:02									#8
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Asher:

It is utterly silly to say this violates civil liberties . It's a very useful tool!

	04-07-2003 02:02									#9
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quote: How is it without your knowledge?

I dunno, someone without the NSA could hack me, or I could place a document on the net without knowing that it contains information that I might not necessarily want to publish.

quote: Why do you think it asks for your initials and full name when you first install it?

I wouldnt know, I dont use proprietary software.

quote: This is in no way, shape, or form, an infringement of civil liberties

No-one said it was, however, it can facilitate it.

quote: It happens in your OS, too, when you create a file, your username and the time it created is recorded

I know, and I said so!! The advantage of txt files is that all of that information can be changed with simple commands like "touch", I dont know what the windows version is.

quote: Down with filesystems

???

	04-07-2003 02:05									#10
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Has there ever been a sane Linux advocate?

Honestly?

I've never met one.

All of the sane Linux users I know are rather humble about it...

	04-07-2003 02:06									#11
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Asher, please dont spam this thread with the usual crap, we've all heard it before.

I dont see how this is an OS issue.

	04-07-2003 02:08									#12
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It's a mindset issue, which is directly related to the OS issue in your case.

Irrationally paranoid and incessantly whack.

	04-07-2003 02:09									#13
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quote: Originally posted by elijah How often do you restart cruddy? If you really want control, use gnupg!

I restart every time I have a session. Typically I remove power totally when I'm not using the system.

Setting the BIOS options takes an extra 10 seconds per restart - maybe 1 minute per week of extra effort.

Any potential thief powers up the computer (which has a large "scrap" motif on it) will see that it doesn't boot - kind of a security feature too.

Amazed that no one else has worked out the real benefit though... Keep guessing!

	04-07-2003 02:12									#14
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quote: directly related to the OS issue in your case

Its much more than that! Relatively speaking, in terms of my interests, I dont really care about computing.

quote: Irrationally paranoid

Perhaps some people use linux because they are paranoid and concerned about security, as opposed to linux making all its users paranoid as you are falsely implying. Did you seriously take a logic course?

quote: incessantly whack

You're hardly one to talk! jk

	04-07-2003 02:13									#15
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What about the ramdisk (I dunno what other OS's term it). If people hack that, your in trouble right?

Any solutions apart from openBSD which doesnt like my graphics card?

	04-07-2003 02:14									#16
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If I read the 3rd post correct, elijah states, that Linux word processors do the same, and that it's a pan-OS issue. The OS-related troll comes from you in this case, Asher.

I prefer text editors over word processors not because I'm paranoid about the traces I leave, but because I want to save resources. Word processors have the habit to create something like a 5 MB document file for a three word text.

	04-07-2003 02:17									#17
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quote: Amazed that no one else has worked out the real benefit though... Keep guessing

You can password protect a bios, keeping a PC from even powering up and making it nigh on impossible to access.

	04-07-2003 02:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph If I read the 3rd post correct, elijah states, that Linux word processors do the same, and that it's a pan-OS issue. The OS-related troll comes from you in this case, Asher.

Of course it comes from me, but I find it so incredibly fitting that somebody with such an irrationally paranoid fear uses Linux.

It's not only fitting, it's pretty standard stuff.

He's making a big deal about something he's not affected by. Sounds familiar.

	04-07-2003 02:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon You can password protect a bios, keeping a PC from even powering up and making it nigh on impossible to access.

And you can spend 20 seconds and reset the password on the motherboard.

	04-07-2003 02:21									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon You can password protect a bios, keeping a PC from even powering up and making it nigh on impossible to access.

Ah, but to do that I would have to put a CMOS battery in the machine to remember the password... Which would bypass the most useful aspect of having a PC that never knows the right time.

Here's a clue. T... L...... T..... D. N.. E.....

	04-07-2003 02:22									#21
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Didn't think of that. No battery means no password.

	04-07-2003 02:24									#22
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I was also thinking eval software would always be valid if you set the proper date and time on startup. the D. N.. is do not. I should know this; I have an alphabet of certifications after my name.

	04-07-2003 02:25									#23
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Time Limited Trials Do Not Expire?

Gosh, what a low gain to pay the high price of fixing the bios by hand each time I start.

	04-07-2003 02:25									#24
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Correct Harry Seldon.

Time Limited Trials Do Not Expire.

	04-07-2003 02:30									#25
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I was going to put that before but thought it wasn't clever enough. I usually just reset the systray clock for apps and edit ini files for OSs. Guess I out thought myself on this one.

	04-07-2003 09:38									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It is utterly silly to say this violates civil liberties . It's a very useful tool!

Yeah? For example?

	04-07-2003 09:54									#27
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From the article:

quote: Mr Murfitt from Mekon said many firms were now looking at installing systems that make it easier to collaborate on documents and that log who did what. He said banking and legal regulators imposed strict working practices on firms that force them to record the life histories of documents that result in new products or are involved in court cases. But, he added, other firms were putting in place document tracking systems to help teams work together. Often these systems use a single copy of a document that workers comment on, correct or annotate before a final edit. "That's where collaboration becomes really useful," he said.

	04-07-2003 10:10									#28
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Only a small handful of companies need that, and only on specific documents. For those, there are already programs such as Lotus Notes that allow collaboration by keeping track of useful information.

	04-07-2003 12:21									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Of course it comes from me, but I find it so incredibly fitting that somebody with such an irrationally paranoid fear uses Linux. It's not only fitting, it's pretty standard stuff. He's making a big deal about something he's not affected by. Sounds familiar.

Yea, it sounds a lot like you. Except I'm not nearly as bored with him as I am with you.

	04-07-2003 15:12									#30
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I use plaintext because I want archaeologists 1000 years from now to find my hard drive, dig up an ASCII chart and a dictionary, and figure out what I've written!

SP