06-07-2003 03:35									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Useless patriotic nonsense

If such things offend you, what are you doing clicking on a thread entitled "Happy Birthday America!" made on July 4th of all days?

For the record, I dispute the nonsense part of your statement.

	06-07-2003 03:36									#152
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The memorial kennel is on it's way to you.

	06-07-2003 03:38									#153
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc If such things offend you, what are you doing clicking on a thread entitled "Happy Birthday America!" made on July 4th of all days? For the record, I dispute the nonsense part of your statement.

I'm not offended. I just think that patriotism is stupid, but I realized that some people have a natural tendacy towards it. I don't.

	06-07-2003 03:40									#154
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[q]his big honker[q]
Hey, I thought we already had established that your honker was bigger than mine...

But regarding your bolded post, what are you trying to say?

Any chance you give me an answer to my original question?

	06-07-2003 03:40									#155
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Well, hell. I'm done here I guess.
MrFun is somewhere blaming the cost of lettuce on inhumanity to Gays, or something similar to the cost of lettuce; and Big Hueij, who's country has absolutely nada in the way of cultural or ethnic diversity, yet insists on playing some Enlightened role, took his ball and went home.

Fine. Bunch of babies.

	06-07-2003 03:42									#156
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And Sloww continues to whine about the whole mess he made but couldn't clean up.

The circle is complete.

	06-07-2003 03:43									#157
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You can fill in for Hueij if you want to, DRose.
So far, I've seen nothing but mouth from you either.
No facts.

	06-07-2003 03:47									#158
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That would be because I have no desire to engage in this not-quite-a debate. It is a round-a-bout discussion that can never be finished to any satisfactory degree. The best anyone can do is bring facts to the table and debate the points with other facts.

Relevent facts, Sloww. Relevent facts.

	06-07-2003 03:50									#159
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I've put relevant facts.
If your head is so tightly wedged up your ass you can't understand, that's not really my concern.

	06-07-2003 03:52									#160
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Explain to us again why the fact that Texas is geographically larger than the Netherlands means it has greater "Freedoms" than the Netherlands...

	06-07-2003 03:55									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But to be fair, I accept this as a point for the US. You want to hear the five points for us I promised Sloww for every US point he could think of? It depends on whether it is really a freedom to do something, rather than those silly 'freedom from' crap. I give the Netherlands good marks for drug policy (though you could legalize more stuff) and gay rights policy. I wish you'd ditch your anti-Nazi legislation and provide more... economic freedom (less taxes basically).

Imran, sorry about this late answer but I get a lot of "Page not found" messages when trying to get to ACS.

Ditching Nazi laws is a matter of opinion and I guess we have to agree to disagree. Being born in Europe just ten years after WW2 ended does leave a mark I guess.

About tax rates: the high taxes we have here make it possible for people that wouldn't be otherwise to participate in our society. IMO there is no freedom if people are shut out just because of their economic si(u?)rcomstances. Me paying taxes give other people economic freedom. (I'm proud to be a Eurocommie )

	06-07-2003 03:57									#162
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Give it up Dros, it's like talking to Fez

	06-07-2003 04:01									#163
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Hueij, I don't dislike Fez. I've never had a problem with him (ignoring for a moment the recent fiasco that is his Birthday thread ) so that's kind of an unfair comparison.

As far as giving up, I'm just itching to get back to SimCity 4. After weeks of testing different methods, I've got a new city that seems to be pretty finacially stable. Certainly more engaging than an Round-a-bout debate.

	06-07-2003 04:07									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I just think that patriotism is stupid, but I realized that some people have a natural tendacy towards it. I don't.

what are you doing clicking on a thread entitled "Happy Birthday America!" made on July 4th of all days?

	06-07-2003 04:11									#165
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EDIT: Nevermind, DD. I see it now.

	06-07-2003 04:21									#166
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quote: the high taxes we have here make it possible for people that wouldn't be otherwise to participate in our society. IMO there is no freedom if people are shut out just because of their economic si(u?)rcomstances.

Shut out from what? Buying the newest toys? It is one thing to provide basic welfare, it is quite another to go beyond that and offer unemployment benefits that are quite comparable to the lowest paying jobs.

More economic freedom to me means more ability for people to do what they wish with the money that they earn. (I'm proud to be a Ameri-capi-something )

	06-07-2003 04:28									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: the high taxes we have here make it possible for people that wouldn't be otherwise to participate in our society. IMO there is no freedom if people are shut out just because of their economic si(u?)rcomstances. Shut out from what? Buying the newest toys? It is one thing to provide basic welfare, it is quite another to go beyond that and offer unemployment benefits that are quite comparable to the lowest paying jobs. More economic freedom to me means more ability for people to do what they wish with the money that they earn. (I'm proud to be a Ameri-capi-something )

Hehe, AmeriKapi... I think we should keep this word on ACS AmerKapi's vs EuroKommies

Like it or not Imran, but guaranteeing a basic income (and I'm talking food and a roof here, not the latest gizmo's) and healthcare for everyone just takes a lot of money. And being a EuroKommie I don't mind paying for it...

Okay, just to get back to topic, happy birthday USA, glad to have you around

	06-07-2003 05:03									#168
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I know it takes a lot of money. But I think it doesn't have to be as much as some European countries spend. I think the US's system with a health care plan (but not NHS Britain like, but more working with private insurers) would be just fine. The resulting tax increases (which there shouldn't be - there should but cuts in other things) would not be all that high (a few percentage points here and there on the top of the scale would do it).

	06-07-2003 05:35									#169
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Imran, I have to get back to you on this tomorrow. I know I have an answer, but with this last beer and the time over here (3.30 AM) I just don't can't find it...

Talk to you tomorrow...

	06-07-2003 06:24									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui More economic freedom to me means more ability for people to do what they wish with the money that they earn. (I'm proud to be a Ameri-capi-something )

What's the difference if you buy it from a firm or you get it from the govt? You still get it. The Dutch get more benefits from the govt so I say they have the same amount of economic freedom.

	06-07-2003 06:27									#171
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quote: What's the difference if you buy it from a firm or you get it from the govt?

Because each individual gets to CHOOSE if you get it from a firm.. hence a freer choice. If you get it from the government, you, as an individual, do not get to choose... 51% or more of the population has already decided where your money goes.

Not saying its bad, per se, I'm just saying it isn't as 'free' to me, and hence less desirable to me.

	06-07-2003 06:31									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: What's the difference if you buy it from a firm or you get it from the govt? Because each individual gets to CHOOSE if you get it from a firm.. hence a freer choice. If you get it from the government, you, as an individual, do not get to choose... 51% or more of the population has already decided where your money goes. Not saying its bad, per se, I'm just saying it isn't as 'free' to me, and hence less desirable to me.

The difference is a group choice as opposed to an individual choice. You're idea of freedom is based on individualism. A group of people can achieve freedom just as individuals achieve freedom.

	06-07-2003 06:34									#173
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quote: You're idea of freedom is based on individualism.

Well, duh! And my friend Hueij also knows this as well. It's the same thing as the neo-Nazi laws in Europe. Different views on life.

quote: A group of people can achieve freedom just as individuals achieve freedom.

Yes, but whether or not a group of people achieves freedom is based on whether individuals in the group achieve freedom. For example the Civil Rights movement: blacks as a group achieved freedom when a good number of individual blacks were allowed in restaurants and able to sit with whites, etc.

	06-07-2003 06:39									#174
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You're starting to turn more liberal I think Imran

	06-07-2003 06:41									#175
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Aroo? Where do you that from?

I'm a libertarian and I've had the same (or similar views ) for as long as you've been on this site!

Now if you said that and had been here for the 5 years I have, you may have a point .

	06-07-2003 06:42									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Aroo? Where do you that from? I'm a libertarian and I've had the same (or similar views ) for as long as you've been on this site! Now if you said that and had been here for the 5 years I have, you may have a point .

Two times today we agreed. That's two more times than since I've been posting here. That means you must be getting more liberal, because I know I haven't changed.

	06-07-2003 06:45									#177
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Actually... perhaps that means you have changed .

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to be more liberal when I haven't altered any beliefs of mine .

	06-07-2003 06:46									#178
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It's perfectly ok to alter beliefs you know

	06-07-2003 06:47									#179
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Yes, I've done so before . Perhaps you should follow your own advice?

	06-07-2003 10:16									#180
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Do it Kidicious! DO IT!!! change... CHAAAANNGE!!!!!! BWUAHAHAHA!!!!


anyway... The USA did it! we're still around one more year... i wonder when we will end?