05-07-2003 09:18									#31
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

To taint the rest of them .

	05-07-2003 10:30									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Any chump with a little bit of "people skill" and the ability to operate Excel can be a CEO.

So have you gotten out of the mailroom yet, or are you still making your way in pizza delivery?

	05-07-2003 15:37									#33
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

A lot of Time-Warner shareholders probably wish the pizza delivery guy had been CEO instead of Gerry Levin. Couldn't have done any worse, and would have been a hell of a lot cheaper.

quote: How do you why unemployment is rising? What if the numbers show (as they might) more job seekers? I don't recall many layoffs lately.

As I said, Republican spin.

BTW, Thursday's WSJ said that this is the 5th consecutive month that businesses have shed jobs.

Okay, okay, unemployment's a lagging indicator, everybody knows that, so maybe things are looking up. But don't spin bad news as good news; that just makes you look like a dork. Kinda like an executive at an exit interview who tells his victim, "You know, I envy you in some ways. This is really a great opportunity for you."

	05-07-2003 17:52									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat and if more people could do CEO jobs, the market for them would flood and they wouldn't make as much money. May as well ***** about what NBA players make.

I don't agree, the whole CEO thing seems very clandestine to me...I think there are many people who could do their jobs but aren't given the chance because of 'networks' and 'old friends'...I don't think it is a market that is based on talent at all and these bosses certainly can't justify their pay when cutting costs by laying people off and jeopardising the lives of them and their family...fat cats licking off the cream, makes me mad

	05-07-2003 18:02									#35
	Inflate your Upload Space

Is there a statistic indicating how many jobs have been created, and how many have been destroyed ? That would answer the question I suppose.

	05-07-2003 18:34									#36
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Is there a statistic indicating how many jobs have been created, and how many have been destroyed ? That would answer the question I suppose.

www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.toc.htm

www.bls.gov (for other related statistics)

I'm suprised so many people start a jeremaid without even bothering to check the facts.

	05-07-2003 19:19									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

HOUSEHOLD DATA | Labor force status
|
..............................|...........|...........|April.....|May...|June....| May-June variation
Civilian labor force.....| 145,829| 146,685| 146,473| 146,485| 147,096| 611
Employment.............| 137,430| 137,638| 137,687| 137,487| 137,738| 251
Unemployment...........| 8,399| 9,047| 8,786| 8,998| 9,358| 360
Not in labor force.......| 74,280| 74,090| 74,067| 74,283| 73,918| -365
|________|________|________|________|________|____
___

According to these statistics, 611,000 people joined the labor force, while only 365,000 left the non-labor force.
It is reasonable to assume that quite a few people actually joined the labour force because of expected job opportunities. However, if this is a major trend or not doesn't show.

I'd like to remind that many people who leave the non-labour force may be deceased retirees, and that many people who join the labour force may be former students, so these figures do not mean automatically "600,000 people now have trust in the job market".

However, the employement went up 251,000 between may and June, so it seems your economy creates jobs again.

Last edited by Spiffor on 05-07-2003 at 19:24

	05-07-2003 20:38									#38
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat So have you gotten out of the mailroom yet, or are you still making your way in pizza delivery?

Never associate me with corporate america!

But I did notice most of the people in business school at my undergraduate university either couldn't hack engineering school (or comp sci), realized they would never get into a good law school, or knew they would make lousy doctors.

Exactly what skills, other than reading an organizational chart is required to be a CEO? The only reason I can think that they get paid so much is because they are at the top of the hierarchy of control - even if they don't really know how to do real work.

	06-07-2003 00:24									#39
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I don't recall many layoffs lately.

Get your damn head out of the sand.

	06-07-2003 00:40									#40
	Suffering from ads?

The seasonally adjusted numbers are usually used to measure the employment numbers.

Attachment: payroll.jpg
This has been downloaded 64 time(s).

	06-07-2003 00:43									#41
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Templar, you don't think you get anywhere in this world through talent do you? You've got to have lots of bullsh*t and a face that fits. Also sleeping with the boss and nepotism are advantages

	06-07-2003 01:02									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Here's the historical US unemployment rate. If you see an long-run trend to increase unemployment you could say that the rate will go up past 10% this decade. That's my prediction.

	06-07-2003 01:04									#43
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I always forget the graphs.

Attachment: unemployment2.jpg
This has been downloaded 88 time(s).

	06-07-2003 03:45									#44
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Templar, you don't think you get anywhere in this world through talent do you? You've got to have lots of bullsh*t and a face that fits. Also sleeping with the boss and nepotism are advantages

Yeah, talent makes people hate you.

I think the impulse to be CEO emerges in people who have no real ability and so desire to control those who do. The thought being something like "I'll be better than the guy who is better than me by controlling the guy who is better than me."

Pity the poor CEO, he/she really only wanted to play the piano.

	06-07-2003 03:46									#45
	Increase Your PM Length

Says the know-all who's never made it as far as the mail room.

	06-07-2003 03:49									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You go Michael, that's the kind of attitude that makes a CEO

	06-07-2003 03:51									#47
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Says the know-all who's never made it as far as the mail room.

Replies the Randroid!

Besides, the mail room is good honorable work. Facilitating the communication between different organs of an institution! Acting as the conduit by which the organs act in unison, allowing the institution itself to develop its own sort of agency! The mailroom people are like the hormones of an institution, sending signals from cell to cell - to stimulate production here and curtail waste there. Wow, it almost sounds exciting!

So Randroid, how far up the corporate ladder are you?

	06-07-2003 03:53									#48
	Got spare money?

Considering I'm the owner and founder, take a guess...

I haven't done anyone else's corporate ladder gig for over a decade.

	06-07-2003 03:55									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ah, the delightful corporate ladder...I am intrigued, from my experience, how some people got to where they are...as for me, I'll just stay archiving and shaking fybogel for the near future

	06-07-2003 03:56									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Considering I'm the owner and founder, take a guess...

Mailroom guy?

	06-07-2003 05:13									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That too.

	06-07-2003 06:27									#52
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'd kill to get a job in the mailroom.

	06-07-2003 08:15									#53
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed if anything, they should be taking their cues from iacocca or jobs, who both killed their salaries in order to resurrect their corporations, rather than kenneth lay who boosted his salary as his business died an ugly death.

Well, the problem gets solved anyways - those companies with bad CEO's go bankrupt.

	06-07-2003 08:49									#54
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Well, the problem gets solved anyways - those companies with bad CEO's go bankrupt.

not before the ceo shafts everyone else by absconding with millions.
like that cfo who built a fvckin' huge mansion in florida?

	06-07-2003 09:04									#55
	Increase Your PM Length

Yes, but the problem gets solved.

	06-07-2003 09:11									#56
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

There's alot better ways of solving the problem though.

	06-07-2003 09:13									#57
	Get a bigger avatar today!

(this is going to devolve into a capitalism/communism debate...)

But no surer ones.

	06-07-2003 15:34									#58
	Suffering from ads?

Put some kind of cap on CEO compensation for one.

This was tried in the 1990s but the loophole was options and all this other crap that was mixed in with compensation that made it even more outrageous than before.

	06-07-2003 15:53									#59
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I have seen first hand the austerity measures and redundancy packages doled out to workers on the bottom level who work hard and get flogged all the harder whilst people get made redundant and their have to, somehow, do their jobs too. Yet the man at the top - the figures look good and his pay packet grows waaaay beyond inflation. That is the truth of the CEO...he doesn't see the reality of what goes on, their heads are in the clouds. Some fancy degree and probably wouldn't go anywhere near a factory if their life depended on it. To me, you cannot defend their salaries or even the nature of their jobs.

	06-07-2003 17:44									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

So nobody should actually run things or set policy?

(BTW, you're somewhat blurring your C(X)O's. CEO's are primarily executive policy setters (i.e. not let's lay off 10,000 people, but let's pursue X business line) and liasons between the board, shareholders, other financial sources, etc.

COOs and CFOs are more involved in the nature of cost-cutting decisions.