05-07-2003 09:37									#1
	'Bring them on,' Bush says; Iraqis do Increase the size of your Attachments

gotta love the headline.

canada.com

quote: A day after George W. Bush declared that coalition forces in Iraq are strong enough to deal with any threat, U.S. troops came under fire again yesterday, with 10 soldiers wounded in three separate incidents as attacks on U.S. forces become bolder and more frequent. The attacks, which appeared to answer the U.S. President's challenge to Iraqis planning assaults on U.S. troops to "bring them on," suggest the urban warfare that had worried military planners before the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime is beginning to materialize. Hostile fire has killed 26 Americans and six British soldiers since Mr. Bush declared major combat in Iraq over on May 1. General Ricardo Sanchez, commander of coalition forces in Iraq, said the number of shooting incidents in the country is averaging 13 a day. "We're still at war," Gen. Sanchez said at a news conference yesterday. Although the attacks do not appear to be co-ordinated, he said there has been an "increase in sophistication of the explosive devices used." One of yesterday's attacks, against a three-vehicle convoy of armoured Humvees on Baghdad's busy Haifa Street, was this week's second rocket-propelled grenade assault in broad daylight in the capital. In both cases, the attackers escaped. Whether out of fear or sympathy for their cause, Iraqi bystanders have done nothing to help coalition forces apprehend the attackers. On Wednesday, Mr. Bush challenged Iraqis attacking U.S.-led forces and said the assaults will not cause the United States to leave Iraq prematurely. "There are some who feel that the conditions are such that they can attack us there," Mr. Bush said. "My answer is, bring them on. We've got the force necessary to deal with the security situation." The President drew political fire for the remarks yesterday, with Democrats saying they amounted to an invitation to Iraqis to try to kill U.S. troops. "These men and women are risking their lives every day, and the President who sent them on this mission showed tremendous insensitivity to the dangers they face," said Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean. Another Democratic presidential candidate, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry, condemned the comment, saying, "The deteriorating situation in Iraq requires less swagger and more thoughtfulness and statesmanship." Yesterday morning's attacks occurred in diverse locations: a Sunni area west of Baghdad that staunchly supported the former regime, a Shia neighborhood in Baghdad and the centre of the city. In the Baghdad neighbourhood of Kadhimiya, a soldier from the 1st Armored Division who was on foot patrol at 2:30 a.m. was wounded after a gunman opened fire. The soldiers returned fire, killing the gunman and wounding a 6-year-old boy with him, according to a U.S. military spokesman. In the city of Ramadi, about 100 kilometres west of Baghdad, six soldiers were wounded when their two-vehicle convoy drove over an improvised explosive device at 6:30 a.m. Ramadi's Sunni Muslim residents were among the core of Saddam's base of support, serving as army officers and officials in his government, and the city has become a centre of resistance to the U.S.-led occupation. The most daring of yesterday's attacks took place just before 10 a.m. in Baghdad when a man on foot fired a rocket-propelled grenade at a three-vehicle military convoy moving down Haifa Street, a busy thoroughfare in the centre of the city. One Humvee was struck, wounding three soldiers, witnesses and a military spokesman said. Witnesses said soldiers in one of the other vehicles opened fire indiscriminately, seriously wounding, and possibly killing, at least one Iraqi driver nearby. Blood pooled next to the slain driver's blue Volkswagen Passat soon after the attack. A crowd of people gathered around the destroyed Humvee and looted it, taking whatever they could remove. Children and adults climbed on top, stomping on it and chanting, "God bless Mohammad!" Then someone set the vehicle on fire and the crowd backed away, watching it slowly burn. Children hurled rocks at the blaze and, in a particularly Arab insult, threw shoes at it. U.S. officers blame isolated, diehard supporters of Saddam for the violence against their troops. But some Iraqis say it reflects more widespread discontent with the occupiers and their failure to provide more services and security. "Damn Saddam and damn Bush! What have I got from either of them?" yelled a man on Haifa Street whose son was wounded. "Get out from our country," someone had scrawled on a wall nearby.

i had to post this, simply because the title was so great.
now, as to the actual matter, it's not so good...

i think shinseki was right when he wanted far more troops there.

	05-07-2003 09:41									#2
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http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...&threadid=91197

Gotta love the difference between the two thread titles though

	05-07-2003 09:47									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ah, Putin has the same attitude towards Chechnya and that has won him nothing but popularity.

What would you rather have in the United States? A weakling that waivers whenever things don't go according to plan, or somebody that declares the U.S. military is full of badasses?

Personally I'd prefer the Iraqi Extremists get themselves killed so the Iraqi people can get on building their nation in peace.

	05-07-2003 09:53									#4
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oh, i don't really care what bush said all too much.

the title, though, that's what i found great.

	05-07-2003 14:12									#5
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Excellent title

	05-07-2003 14:19									#6
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Well.. this is the stage that everyone was thinking how big the Iraqi resistance can .. resist. Hasn't shown it's power yet, relatively weak still, and we have to wait for couple of years to see it what it really is.

Who was wondering if US can take out Iraq or not? This is the stage many of us was wondering. But to me, so far it doesn't look too bad. The future will show how bad the situation is or will get.

So, I wouldn't look bad ass if I was in charge, I would just try to be analytical about it 'we knew this would happen, and we're doing everything possible to protect our men and women in service. We have been gathering information about rebelling forces, and we will counter them at every square feet in Iraq. We're in a foreign country, no one can ever control the whole area, but we're doing the best we can and so far we have been succesful. We're setting up Iraqi army, and getting them to demolish the enemis of the new state of Iraq. We will be victorious, and we will destroy every element that is corrupt and trying to keep the people down!'.

Something like that, not 'bring them on'

But it was only words he said.. I woudln't take it too seriously, or that he had a big negative effect in the area. These attacks would have happened no matter what Bush says. And they will continue happening, no matter what Bush says, so I can't say it's his fault really.

	05-07-2003 14:24									#7
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Sure, all these attacks probably have nothing to do with what W said, but the way he said it made him a political buffoon.

	05-07-2003 15:37									#8
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Im not suprised.

quote: and, in a particularly Arab insult, threw shoes at it.

can some1 explain this?

	05-07-2003 16:55									#9
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IIRC, this insult has to do with the traditional life in the desert. Shoes were what you wore to avoid putting your feet in goat crap and the other dirties being outside. That's why shoes are considered to be a lowly and dirty thing, and throwing shoes at someone mean you consider him no better than crap. (It seems it is also the reason why Arabs take out their shoes before entering in someone's home).

	05-07-2003 20:08									#10
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That sounds reasonable.

	05-07-2003 21:58									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Well.. this is the stage that everyone was thinking how big the Iraqi resistance can .. resist. Hasn't shown it's power yet, relatively weak still, and we have to wait for couple of years to see it what it really is. Who was wondering if US can take out Iraq or not? This is the stage many of us was wondering. But to me, so far it doesn't look too bad. The future will show how bad the situation is or will get.

I agree with you to this point,but we need the help of other nations,and people inside Iraq.What is done to foster any allies internally?Usually this is done prior to invasion occupation ect.
[/QUOTE]

1)We're in a foreign country, no one can ever control the whole area, but we're doing the best we can and so far we have been succesful.[/QUOTE] Guerilla forces do not controle areas or secure parameters,they're all about targets of opportunity.
[/QUOTE] 2) We're setting up Iraqi army, and getting them to demolish the enemis of the new state of Iraq.[/QUOTE] Hopefully there are some Kurds and Shii,s that are glad to be rid of Saddam. Have any of these factions put forth any leadership thats a main problem.
[/QUOTE] 3)We will be victorious, and we will destroy every element that is corrupt and trying to keep the people down!'.[/QUOTE] What dumb-ass should've said. I agree [/Quote]

Something like that, not 'bring them on'

But it was only words he said.. I woudln't take it too seriously, or that he had a big negative effect in the area. These attacks would have happened no matter what Bush says. And they will continue happening, no matter what Bush says, so I can't say it's his fault really. [/QUOTE] He should be made to retract that statement.

	06-07-2003 08:58									#12
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it always seemed to me, honestly, that it was something rumsfeld would say, not dubya.

	06-07-2003 21:41									#13
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quote: Ah, Putin has the same attitude towards Chechnya and that has won him nothing but popularity

yeah... and dozens dead in another terrorist attack...

	06-07-2003 21:56									#14
	Suffering from ads?

And Israel, Britain etc etc etc

I dont see force working against sociological terrorism. Its never worked before, the only times it has worked against terrorism in general is organised, specific guerilla campaigns, not terrorism fuelled by a culture. The US and UK shuold pull out, and either the UN or a coalition of Arab states should take over.

	07-07-2003 05:19									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

you suck Q-cubed. Why don't you smoke some murderer pole.

	07-07-2003 09:09									#16
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quote: you suck Q-cubed.

ooh, fun. you swallow.

quote: Why don't you smoke some murderer pole.

now, gp, can you clarify this? it doesn't make much sense. are you calling poles murderers? wouldn't that be a liberal position, seeing as polish troops are occupying iraq? how is that a good way to treat our allies in the gulf region?
not to mention it would be difficult trying to roll some polish guy into a big doobie. i don't think they'd light up so well.

if you'll note, i'm not relishing the actual event. i find it a disturbing incident, one which i think could be solved by bringing in a true occupation force to help rebuild the country. we don't have enough troops to cut it there right now, not to rebuild it, keep themselves and others safe from predation, and to keep security.

i posted it because i found the title of the article the most humorous spin on the event.