05-07-2003 20:58									#1
	Logic Loop Build Queue Support Apolyton

Okay, seeing as the colony pod has just finished at Logic Loop, we need another item for the build queue. Based on previous discussions, the options stand at the following:

Another Colony Pod
After production of this colony pod, we will immediately regrow to 2 population, meaning we can produce another colony pod. This could be crucial in overcoming our growth penalty, and in improving our research rate and economy.

A Terraformer
We can terraform faster and improve production. Pretty self-explanatory.

A Military Unit of Some Sort
All of our military units so far are scout patrols, and though it seems more unlikely now, PEACE could still be out to get us. Here, we could produce another scout patrol and reinforce our base defences, or we could prototype the laser, rover, or both.

Recycling Tanks
One additional nutrient, mineral, and energy for Logic Loop, which will certainly help in all ways.

Recreation Commons
We can deal with the drone problem, and allow our population to grow above 3 without having to divert doctors or energy, and we won't have to use nervestapelling. This would do well if followed up by a secret project.

Secret Project
One of the Human Genome Project, the Weather Paradigm, or the Virtual World. We need to start these early if we want them. Fortunately, the only other faction working on Secret Projects are the Drones, and they're going for the Merchant Exchange, so we still have time.

Write-In
Post something that's not on the poll.

Cybobanana
You surrender your biological and technological distinctiveness to us. Resistance if futile.

You have two days.

	05-07-2003 23:48									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Corellion: We have already voted on this. The people said to build an SP there ASAP, even though I am against this. If this poll gives a different result, with at least 3 votes for when the next turn needs to be played, I will use it provisionally, if not I will use the last poll. This poll is more recent, and so superceeds it, but only if it looks quite sure to have a majority.

I voted Rec Commons BTW so we can actually grow while building an SP.

Last edited by Drogue on 06-07-2003 at 00:12

	06-07-2003 01:16									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I would first like to see the turn before voting. I need to calculate when we could rush a facility etcetera.

	06-07-2003 04:54									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

At the time we conducted the last poll, we didn't have the technology to build rec commons, and it wasn't certain that we would get them. Most of those options were just for the sake of completeness. Besides, that last poll was a while ago, and I think (especially with the advancements in relations with PEACE) that it deserves to be re-polled.

	06-07-2003 17:57									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Wow, I just noticed we have no less than 123 credits in stock! Did we pop an energy pod last turn or so? With this new information, I suggest that we build and hurry both a rec commons and rec tanks asap in Logic Loop, massively improving our odds to get a good SP!

	06-07-2003 21:25									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

!! When did we get 123 credits!?

Last edited by Corellion on 06-07-2003 at 21:32

	07-07-2003 04:05									#7
	Remove this text

I think we must have got 50 as well as the Mrk 1 Ogre in the pod, however I didn't notice

I also propose rushing rec commons, since we seem to be for it, and their isn't time to poll. Rec tanks we can vote properly on and the rest can go on my new Prime Palace

Last edited by Drogue on 07-07-2003 at 04:29

	07-07-2003 07:44									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You must have gotten 75 ec's plus the ogre

Sans the event (I popped a monolith) you ended 2118 with 42 ec's, and get 3 in your new turn, plus another 3 from the stockpile energy application when the CP is built. This = 48.

With the event you start 2119 with 123, hence the 75 addition to reserves

G.

	07-07-2003 08:33									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

AHA! The best of both worlds! Only one turn for the rec commons, and we start the SP next turn!

	07-07-2003 16:39									#10
	Support Apolyton

Well I would vote to hurry a rec tanks as well. We have the cash for it, and the +1 min every year will make the small delay insignificant in a matter of years.

	07-07-2003 17:11									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I would also vote to hurry both a rec tanks and a rec commons, with the tanks first, since then we can get to the 10 min rush limit sooner, and tanks have no maintanance too...

	07-07-2003 21:50									#12
	Put an end to popups!

Okay...

We have 123 credits. It takes 140 credits to rush each of the rec commons and rec tanks. While we can certainly rush, we'll have to wait for a few turns of constructions first.

How long should we wait until we rush?

Also, should we attack that fungal tower? It may provide us with some much-needed extra energy credits.

	07-07-2003 22:58									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Corellion: Too late I am sorry with the last one, I attacked and beat the fungal tower, as I had not seen any other orders when I played. We got another 40 Ec

I vote we wait a few turns anyway to rush, as it costs a lot less then, and that money can be used for much. Yes rush it, but wait a coupel of turns first IMHO. ATM it is building a Rec Commons, but has not rushed yet.

	07-07-2003 23:57									#14
	Put an end to popups!

Provided we wait until 10 mins have been collected, the cost to rush both a rec commons or a rec tanks is 60ec, hence 120 for both.

Building the tanks first means we can rush it and then get the next 10 mins faster to rush the commons, and while we do so we're not loosing an extra ec a turn from maintanance. 120 e.c. isn't that much for what we'd get back, and then we can make a great start for an SP, knowing we can grow to size 4 with no riots (Assuming we don't switch to FM) and we get an extra +1 min a turn. All round good methinks

It's only 2ec a min after the first 10 so we might as well rush as soon as able.

C

	08-07-2003 01:12									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

My dear Function Chaunk, your logic is impeccable tonight

I second Chaunk's proposal, it is the only sensible course of action. Anyone else? I change my votes to Rec Tanks, and so it will be changed to that next turn, and then the Rec Commons built and rushed after 10 mins each

	08-07-2003 03:41									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

I'll also support a switch to rec tanks, but I have a question...

What are the exact rules for cost to rush builds? I've always been a bit unclear on this point, and the exact costs per mineral.

	08-07-2003 04:00									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

They vary.. for a new item they are doubled, its higher for the first 10, and lower for the last half IIRC. It's also higher for military and SPs than for base facilities. Maybe someone can point you to a page with the breakdown, but I think it is 2 ec per min at the lowest point.

	08-07-2003 05:29									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

I don't know it all either, but I knew it for the most frequent rushes done. If my memory still serves me well after not playing SMAC for a long time:

• 2 credits per mineral for a facility with more than 10 minerals accumulated
  
• 4(?) credits per mineral for a facility with less than 10 minerals accumulated
  
• 4 credits per mineral for a secret project more than 15/30%(?) completed
  
• 8(?) credits per mineral for a secret project less than 15/30%(?) completed
  
• Way too complex for me to remember for military units. The cost of the unit, the ratio already completed, whether more than ten mins are accumulated, whether it is already prototyped all play a part! I think there was once a thread about it where it was explained, but even then I didn't get it (largely because I didn't even bother to read it thoroughly though).