06-07-2003 20:48									#1
	I need someone who is familiar with Celtic/Irish stuff Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I need help with my Irish monks scenario. Desperately.
If anyone here is familiar with Celtic/Irish mysticism and stuff like that, from early Christianity on (~6th/7th century AD), could they please mail me? I'd like this stuff to be private, because I don't want to reveal anything before I think it is time. Please, no PM, this takes too long for me to load for a correspondence.
My eMail adress is StefanDOTHaertelATt-onlineDOTcom

Thanks

	07-07-2003 17:32									#2
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Well...I have read a few books of [pagan] Celtic mythology and I've listened to Irish and Scottish folk since time immemorable.
A few hints for internet search:
the Firbolg
People of DeDanann [or Danaans]
Finn and the Fianna
Cuchulain
Red Roy and the house of Ulster

the rest has slipped my mind
Irish mythology differentiates between several "historical" periods:
1)Invasion myths(accounts of different invasions by the Firbolg, Fomorian and Danaan peoples)
2)The early Milesian kings
3)Ultonian Cycle(the kings of Ulster)
4)Ossianic Cycle(the heroes Cuchulain and Finn)

I also reccomend the old but reliable book titled "Celtic Myths and Legends" by T.W. Rolleston and another quite similarly named work by the lady MacGregor.

	07-07-2003 23:34									#3
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Valuk, those Irish legends you listed were from pre-Christian Ireland, but the impression I got from Stefans post was that he wanted material from the Christian period onwards.

I'd like to help Stefan, but unfortunately my knowledge of Irish history at this period is limited; I might be able to help if you need ideas for the WoW e.g. the Rock Of Cashel. There's a history section at www.boards.ie - maybe if you posted something there you might find someone who could help...

	08-07-2003 00:27									#4
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Thanks so far to all who answered (looking forward to further posts...plz). One thing I'd like to know in particular is in how far pre-christian mysticism survived.
Some ideas for WoW's would really be appreciated. That, and the tech tree is where I'm stuck most badly.

	11-07-2003 02:37									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel Thanks so far to all who answered (looking forward to further posts...plz). One thing I'd like to know in particular is in how far pre-christian mysticism survived. Some ideas for WoW's would really be appreciated. That, and the tech tree is where I'm stuck most badly.

I know about Saint Brigid... It's a transfiguration of an ancient Irish deity of fertility.

Apart from that, there are a lot of legends about Sant Patrick converting Ulsterian heroes to Christianity.

	11-07-2003 03:32									#6
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I told you that preview was about Ireland!

	11-07-2003 05:00									#7
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There are 10 legendary Celtic Treasures, would these work? Tara, seat of the Irish Kings? Clonmacnoise monastery was founded in 565, is that too late?

	11-07-2003 08:02									#8
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I s'pose this precedes Guinness?

	11-07-2003 08:08									#9
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What would guiness be as a wonder? Cure for Cancer?
Anyway, one of the things that makes Celtic mythology so interesting is the fusion of the old ideas with Christian concepts. The very idea of "fairies" stems from the old Tuatha de Dannann, as semi-demonized and weakened by missionaries. I agree that you need Rolleston's work. It gives great basic coverage.
As for wonders....VOYAGE OF MAELDUN!! It's definitely from the Christian era, and sort of an Irish Oddysey.

	11-07-2003 19:40									#10
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Thanks for the input (& keep it coming )
What I forgot to mention was that, although the scenario is from an Irish point of view, it will focus mostly the voyage of St Brendan and the likes (that is, pre-Viking America, Iceland, etc).
Although I try my best to make it as Irish as possible, things must be in some way compatible with the northern seas and the new world.
The rough boundaries would be between the mission of St Patrick (early 6th century) and the first Viking raids (late 8th century), so 565 would fit perfectly, Mike. Any further information is appreciated

quote: I s'pose this precedes Guinness?

Nice idea for an alternate future tech methinks

quote: As for wonders....VOYAGE OF MAELDUN!! It's definitely from the Christian era, and sort of an Irish Oddysey.

Is that related to Brendan?

	11-07-2003 20:19									#11
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Stefan, I never heard of the "VOYAGE OF MAELDUN", but a quick web search gave me these links: they seem able to provide some useful infos for a scen...

http://www.ardue.org.uk/library/book5/maeldun.html

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/mlcr/mlcr07.htm

and this might help as well:

http://www.ardue.org.uk/library/book5.html


Hurry up, your scenario has me salivating...

	12-07-2003 01:40									#12
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No relation to Brendan that I know of, sorry. It's the story of a guy who gets blown off course while sailing to settle a grudge with his enemies, winds up having tons of wacky adventures, many with connotations of Christian morals. But I'm guessing there's little/no room for two naval adventures in one scenario, and most of Maeldun's trip, like the oddysey, takes place in mythological islands.

	12-07-2003 11:37									#13
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http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze33gpz/mythold.html

http://juanma.galeon.com/legadeng.htm

http://www.gfxartist.com/community/member_gallery/11406

http://celtic.so-rocks.com/index.php?about

More to come...

	12-07-2003 20:38									#14
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Some ideas for wonders:

The Rock of Cashel
This was the seat of power for the Kings of Munster from the 5th century until the 12th century, when it was handed over to the Church. Due to its geographical position, it could see any approaching army for miles around and was thus an ideal stronghold. Located inside is St. Patrick's Cross, who visited Cashel in 450A.D.

The Burren
The word burren derives from boireann, which means 'rocky land' in Gaelic, which is an accurate description of this vast limestome plateau in County Clare. It is famous for its unique botanical environment.

The Book Of Kells
A famous illustrated manuscript, containing the 4 gospels in Latin. Some of the dyes used in it were imported as far away as the Middle East!

Newgrange
Newgrange is one of Ireland's, but also Europe's best known prehistoric monuments, made internationally famous because of the orientation of its tomb passage towards the rising sun of the winter solstice. Millions of man-hours went into it's construction, considering that it was built over 5,000 years ago, a fact that makes it older than the Pyramids of Egypt. Every year on the winter solstice, as the sun rises over the horizon, it's rays shine through the roof-box above the entrance of the tomb, illuminating the tomb for several minutes.

The Giants Causeway
This is a natural phenomenon of basalt columns (all incredibly regular) stretching out to sea on County Antrim's coast. There's an Irish myth that they originated due to a Scottish giant, who wanted to come to Ireland to fight Finn McCool - however he could not find any ship large enough to take him over so he tossed pillars into the sea to form the Causeway in order that he could cross.

Croagh Patrick
This is a mountain in Co. Mayo where St. Patrick fasted for 40 days and nights for the Irish.

Hope some of these help.

	12-07-2003 23:10									#15
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Thanks again to all
I will spend some time tonight working out all the info, and tell you what I've come up with
Meanwhile, here's the map I'm using (a gigamap). It's a bit modified from the one I posted on the board a while ago (I hope, else the changes are lost).
Some comments on the terrain:
Forest is "old world forest"
Hills is, well, hills, with forest
Mountain is "new world forest" (I didn't want old and new world forests to have the same production and ressources)
Jungle is "hills without forest"

A lot of ressources have been renamed simply to "game" because this simply is what was most important there and then.

The Celts/Irish will be based on the isles off the shore of Ireland and Scotland. There will be two or three monk players, one European, the rest will be American natives (Inuit, Iroquois, Cherokee). Any comments/ideas?

Attachment: brendan.zip
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	13-07-2003 10:21									#16
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A question for all you people:

Did druids build temples?

I mean ACTUAL temples with stone walls and corridors, not some wilderness gathering.
I am refering to post-Roman brittain(that is after 410A.D).

I suppose that Graico-Roman civilization must have had an influence on their ritual practises.


I am only asking because i just read a story by Robert Howard in which the barbarian heroes upon encountering a building were pretty sure it was a druidic temple.

And that puzzled me.

	13-07-2003 11:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos A question for all you people: Did druids build temples? I mean ACTUAL temples with stone walls and corridors, not some wilderness gathering. I am refering to post-Roman brittain(that is after 410A.D). I suppose that Graico-Roman civilization must have had an influence on their ritual practises. I am only asking because i just read a story by Robert Howard in which the barbarian heroes upon encountering a building were pretty sure it was a druidic temple. And that puzzled me.

Yup, there are a lot of evidences about wells, sacrificial spots, and celtic "nemeton", or sacred fence, which divided the sacred soil from the common one - even here in Italy.

Regular temples were builded after greco-roman's cultural contacts.

Must have something about Ireland... just gimme time to check.

	13-07-2003 14:02									#18
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Dun Aìlinne, Leinster ( Ireland ) - Early Iron Age

Attachment: dun ailinne 01.jpg
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	14-07-2003 02:11									#19
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Interesting.....

Thanks Prometeus!