07-07-2003 06:10									#1
	City size Remove this text

What is the largest city cize? I have been able to get it to 31, but I can't figure out how to get it any higher. Any tips?
Thanks!

	07-07-2003 11:04									#2
	food caravans Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Send food caravans to your city
1 food caravan = 1/2 food box
If there is a granary in the city (or Pyramids in one of your cities), your city will grow even if it is starving, provided that you send 2 food caravans/turn to the city.
You can grow the city well over size 100, but it is no use at all (except if you are looking for a high score: ask Rah )

	07-07-2003 16:14									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The largest size your city can get without the help of food caravans is 46. That is, if you build your city in a spot with all grassland, and between 4 Oasis or Wheat specials. If you put farmland on all of that, each Grassland square will give 4 food, and the specials give 6 food. (for a total of 92 food, citizens eat 2 each, so the city can go up to size 46)

Aside from caravan help, it all comes down to the terrain. In the end game, if you want bigger cities, you can transform terrain to grassland or plains.

When a city is celebrating "We Love The _ Day" and has a food surplus, the city will grow by one population point each turn... But this will only last till your city reaches size 41, because after that there will be more entertainers than happy people.

	07-07-2003 17:06									#4
	Put an end to popups!

I've heard of people changing the rules.txt file to make terrain like grassland provide 100 food instead of the default 2 (all 21 squares producing 100 food would yield over 2000 food per turn), which of course would make the city grow much larger than 46. Yet, I also recall reading that the max a city can grow (no matter how much food production it has, it is a hard limit inside the game engine) is 129. I'll have to search for it though. At 129, however, if it grows further, it will simply recycle back down to 1.

	07-07-2003 17:56									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

That's almost true, the maximum is 127. After that it flips over to -128 and then increases back to 1 and up (in ToT at least).

	08-07-2003 08:46									#6
	Remove this text

yeah 127 is the max....but that is kinda lame and annoying to get to.

	08-07-2003 09:58									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey, Mercator!

Thanks for the info. Say, can do you know of any map of East Asia that encompasses Mongolia/Korea to Indonesia? Hence including China, Japan, Burma, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore.

I want to write a scenario about pre-industrial Asia.

	08-07-2003 15:25									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You could try this:
http://www.civgaming.net/mercator/l.../maps/index.htm
(especially the Asia and Pacific entries)
... But I don't think there are too many interesting ones. I'd have to dig a little in my personal collection (if I don't forget).

Last edited by Mercator on 13-09-2003 at 20:44

	09-07-2003 00:39									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thank you, I will try that.

I know I know, I could edit my own, but I just don't have the patience (or the time) for such tedious work.

If you find anything, please pass it along to me.

	09-07-2003 00:55									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I didn't find any.

( ordering my maps in a database would be really helpful...)

	09-07-2003 01:15									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, searching for civ2 maps is a pain. There seems to be so few out there.

Say, will your map utility some day be able to create random maps? It took me a while to figure out how to make a randomized giga map. I had to install the "no limits" patch and do it from the civ2 executable.

You know, I magically turned my FW into MGE (I think the method is hush hush here at Apolyton) just a few days ago. And wow, those giga maps are something else! For almost a decade I yearned to play bigger maps, and now here they are!

	09-07-2003 01:25									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

My friend Julius (Brenzaida), the author of the 'no limits' patch, doesn't post any longer because he's very busy in RL.
But I guess he would reply if you pm or e-mail him.

	09-07-2003 02:26									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by sirsnuggles Say, will your map utility some day be able to create random maps?

Not likely... But I know a great map randomizer (Civ.Map.Gen, not by me), it's available on my website (see homepage link or signature), but it can't create gigamaps... In fact, it has some extra quirky limitations on map size.

	09-07-2003 13:28									#14
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I just received a message from Julius telling me "hello, I'm on vacation".
The time has come to join him if needed

	11-07-2003 01:54									#15
	Put an end to popups!

There's a lot of civ maps! how can you say that there aren't enough!

you can always visit my site for a few

http://home.att.net/~civgames/index.html

	11-07-2003 09:41									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

yup there a few sites out there...but so many are long gone....

	12-07-2003 12:09									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes... using the old food caravan trick between pairs or quads of cities can drive the cites up to the real limit. Otherwise, 46 is the limit in perfect conditions

	12-07-2003 13:18									#18
	Support Apolyton

How does the food caravan trick work?

	13-07-2003 00:38									#19
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by sirsnuggles How does the food caravan trick work?

I explained that on top of this page (second post)

	18-07-2003 10:07									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

In addition... if you send multiple food caravans from a single city to another city, the number of food subtracted is never more than just the first caravan

	18-07-2003 10:56									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Is there a benefit, then, from sending multiple caravans from one city to another city?

I ask because I never use food caravans (I like to use all three caravan slots for trade only).

	18-07-2003 12:31									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The answer is 'yes'.
This is due to the fact that, when you deliver a food caravan, there are 2 consequences (similar to the 'One Time Bonus' and the 'Continuing Trade Route' for commodity caravans):
1) 1/2 box of food in the food box of the destination city.
2) A 'food route', 1 food/turn transfered from the Source City to the Destination City during all following turns until the route is destroyed.

If you send 20 food caravans to a city, let us say your SSC, the 'cost' is 1 food route if all food caravans come from 1 city and 20 food routes if they come from 20 different cities.
(make your choice )

	18-07-2003 12:47									#23
	Put an end to popups!

What does SSC stand for?

I knew about 1 and 2, I just thought you guys knew some extra cheat.

I've read how some people build up a city with squads of caravans which is a technique that I haven't tried. I'm still pondering if I like the idea. Using food caravans is an aspect of the game that I seem to ignore, perhaps to my own detriment.

	18-07-2003 12:53									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by sirsnuggles What does SSC stand for?

Super Science City: the place, ideally with trade specials and rivers, where you build Colossus, Copernic, Isaac and other science Wonders, as well as all the science improvements, so that it generates a massive amount of beakers (sometimes nearly as much as the rest of your civ)

	18-07-2003 13:10									#25
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ah yes, I like that ploy. I usually do it around gold, spice, wine (esp.), and lots of ocean or rivers.

I also stick three high trade routes there.

	18-07-2003 16:56									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by sirsnuggles I ask because I never use food caravans (I like to use all three caravan slots for trade only).

A food caravan isn't like a normal one. You can establish a food trade route and still have three high-paying commodities traded. This stands to reason because you only get to see the top three paying trade routes on the city screen and since food doesn't pay anything then it wouldn't appear but it is still effective and you can see it on your resource screen: it'll give you the number of food units eaten per turn by the populace and then have (+1 to Rome) in brackets before calculating how much goes into the food box each turn. Even if the route cancelled one of the original big-money ones then by the time you can get around to pumping food caravans into your cities then you shouldn't really be bothered about research or money anyway.

Food trade routes are only necessary if you have planned your city site really badly, or if you want to take advantage of a 4-special site with no decent food-producing land. Take a caravan from a city with a large surplus and it will give your starving friends one wheat per turn and half the food box upon delivery. Once you have managed to irrigate the hills or desert or whatever and your city can grow normally then you simply have to send another caravan back to the host city to cancel it.

Food caravans are a great thing though, and all my wonders are built with them. You can have your three commodities on ships to distant corners of the globe while the food caravans hang around inside your wonder city waiting until you discover the tech.

	18-07-2003 19:01									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Food caravans are a great thing though, and all my wonders are built with them. You can have your three commodities on ships to distant corners of the globe while the food caravans hang around inside your wonder city waiting until you discover the tech.

Ditto!!

	18-07-2003 19:18									#28
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Once you have managed to irrigate the hills or desert or whatever and your city can grow normally then you simply have to send another caravan back to the host city to cancel it.

The situation isn't as simple as that. By sending any food caravan from the SSC you run a risk of losing a proper trade route and replacing it with a food route! This will weaken the arrow power of the Science City.

If a food freight is sent from a large city to a small one there is a half-way house result. The despatching city will neither lose a trade route in the city screen nor have its food decreased. The only result will be found in the receiving city which has half its food box filled.

---------------

SG(2)

	19-07-2003 10:53									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: This stands to reason because you only get to see the top three paying trade routes on the city screen and since food doesn't pay anything then it wouldn't appear but it is still effective and you can see it on your resource screen:

The official Strategy Guide for Civ2 states, "Each city can operate up to three trade routes. If more than three are established, the three most profitable routes are maintained while the remainder are dropped."

	19-07-2003 16:32									#30
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by SG The situation isn't as simple as that. By sending any food caravan from the SSC you run a risk of losing a proper trade route and replacing it with a food route! This will weaken the arrow power of the Science City.

No if you turn workers to Elvises in destination city before the delivery.