08-07-2003 16:30									#31
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Maps randomly generated in the editor should not be any different from random maps generated by starting a new game. There is no purpose for them to be different.

Of course, since we're playing this game with Firaxis it would be a simple matter to ask them "Is it possible for the RMG to put an Ocean tile next to coast?".

	08-07-2003 16:34									#32
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Of course, since we're playing this game with Firaxis it would be a simple matter to ask them "Is it possible for the RMG to put an Ocean tile next to coast?".

Why didn't one of us think of that before?

	08-07-2003 16:40									#33
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* FrustratedPoet dances
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	08-07-2003 18:05									#34
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-shrug- I don't know if they are different for sure, it'd be an easy matter to test though:

1) Extract the random # seed from a saved games map (not this one obviously)
2) Use it as the seed in the editor, see if it comes up with the same map.

That said I'm not 100% sure on how to do step 1 as I've never tried hacking a save file, I bet some of the better save editors can do it though.

In any case, I wouldn't be willing to call someone a liar/cheater over 1 tile. And yeah, asking Firaxis if its possible is a good idea before we go making accusations.

	08-07-2003 18:19									#35
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quote: Originally posted by wervdon And yeah, asking Firaxis if its possible is a good idea before we go making accusations.

Agreed. Definitive proof would be needed before any public accusation could possibly be made. Something strange has certainly happened, though. At the very least it's a bug that Firaxis can fix in a future patch.

	08-07-2003 21:28									#36
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One problem with asking Firaxis though:

We do not have in game contact with them.

Sending them a screenshot (even a heavily cropped one) could be construed as cheating.

In fact, just telling them we think the chokepoint between us and another civ was editted, thus telling them a) we have contact with other civs and b) there is a chokepoint could be construed as communicating with another team about the game before we have contact.

Normally, I'd say ask Mongoose to do the communication on our behalf and not mention which team it refers to, but well in this case.....

We might have to wait until contact is made and then ask if we don't want to risk some over zealous team from accusing us of cheating. It shouldn't be that long though if the land visible near CFC does lead to the other continent.

	08-07-2003 21:32									#37
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I'm not a lawyer or anything, but I actually don't think you can prove "anything" (as some philosophical approaches see nature). You have to "prove" beyond reasonable doubt, and how would that be? we can test 50, 100, 1000 or even more maps and see there is no way (or maybe there is?) we can have a map with an ocean tile in that location when creating random maps.

Of course, asking Firaxis would be so much easier...

	08-07-2003 23:19									#38
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We don't have to tell Firaxis anything. Simply describe the situation:


"Can the random map editor place an ocean square in a position such that it is 2 squares from land in 5 directions, seperated only by 1 square of coast, and in the direction away from land, there is sea, and no other ocean within a 3 tile distance in that direction?"

Might have to draw it out for them, but that won't tell them anything; that spot on the map could be anywhere, or nowhere.

	09-07-2003 03:11									#39
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Hell, why not take a screenshot and cut out only the bit that F-P describes above and send THAT to them?

I can't do it right now, but if no-one else has in a couple of hours I can to show you.

	09-07-2003 03:54									#40
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Maybe the scenario creator clicked on the map with the "Ocean" brush once by mistake when looking it over. This is easy to do, because "Ocean" is the default type when you load up the editor. I've done it many times when setting up AU courses, much to my dismay.

I'm quite certain it is not possible to have an Ocean tile adjacent to a Coast tile. The map generator does not generate exceptions, and after rolling up (RPG reference) a few maps you can see that it is rather predictable.


Dominae

	09-07-2003 04:24									#41
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I was thinking the same thing.

I have also accidently clicked on a map in the editor and put ocean tiles where they shouldnt be.


Accidents happen ... we should not just jump to the conclusion that there has been intentional modification to the map.

Just show it to Mongoose and ask if he thinks he could of accidently moded the map. Forget the cloak and dagger stuff with Firaxis.