10-07-2003 18:42									#31
	Re: Conquest Info at Gamespot Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

This article made me lose interest in Conquests

- Some of the new features (E.G. Natural Disasters) will only be in some of the scenarios

- There are only seven new civs (not eight)

	10-07-2003 18:53									#32
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You will be able to likely toggle some of the natural affects.

Aswell there is plenty more then 7 civs, just 7 civs to be added to the normal game.

And if all that doesn't suit you, the game will be more easily modified so that you can make a game that better suits how you want to play it.

This is the expansion PTW should have been (and sorta discussed early in PTW's development).

	10-07-2003 19:06									#33
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Hi,
Does anybody heard about change made to the A.I. for Conquest?

Thanks,

	10-07-2003 19:08									#34
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This is great. Are we going to be able to give names to the terrain features? why is one of the tiles in the screen called Cedars or Lebanon? I also hope that Nuke power will be changable with the editor.

Is this too good to be true?

Last edited by Sheik on 10-07-2003 at 19:14

	10-07-2003 19:14									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sheik This is great. Are we going to be able to give names to the terrain features? why is one of the tiles in the screen called Cedars or Lebanon? Is this too good to be true?

It looks like a new terrain tile (a new type of forest) created specifically for a scenario.

That's not the same thing as being able to name terrain features, but it's still good.

I hope we get the ability to name terrain features with text on the map (like in SMAC, only customisable). That'd be awesome.

	10-07-2003 20:37									#36
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It's called Cedars of Lebanon, I think, as a little in-joke. The Cedars of Lebanon, as refered to in the Bible ("the Lord's voice shatters the Cedars of Lebanon"), were the primary trade staple of the Phoenicians, especially those at Byblos and Tyre. Cedar wood was a valuable commodity, and the trade of cedar wood made the Phoenicians rich. It seems that in the scenario, cedars can be harvested as trade items for the people who control Lebanon (Phoenicia).

	10-07-2003 21:17									#37
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this is great!

	10-07-2003 21:27									#38
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Good stuff! After the pretty much disappoitning PTW, this looks like something.

I was absolutely sure there would be new traits in PTW, yet there were not... and apparently we are getting some decent scenarios. Good stuff.

	10-07-2003 21:30									#39
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And for the record, anyone saw WW2 alliance screen? Can there be anything more stupid than a picture of Elizabeth with title "Prime Minister Churchill", and right near it Abe Lincoln titled "President Roosvelt".

	10-07-2003 21:38									#40
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How about Queen Wilhelmina?

However, I sincerely doubt seeing leaderheads for the scenario civs. Nine to one against, I think.

	10-07-2003 21:40									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Trip P.S. Agricultural and Seafaring rock.

I don't know.. Seems like they might make sense as a third characteristic for a civ ( in addition to selecting two of the others already available). I wouldn't pick one of these qualities instead of industrious or militaristic, though. When was the last time in history a civ with one of these characterisitics was considered dominant because of these qualities - for agricultural (never?) for seafaring (18th century?) These aren't characterisitcs that will help you win the game. Don't all civs start out as agricultural civs until they fashion weapons to kill animals and become hunter-gatherers? If you are a seafaring civ isn't it because you have no choice because you are surrounded by water?

Also, jade is a new resource. I thought we already had 'gems'..

	10-07-2003 21:40									#42
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Right you are... but what about at least non-animated heads? Honestly, I'd rather talk to a non-animated Churchill than fully animated Elizabeth thinking she's Churchill.

	10-07-2003 21:41									#43
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Those are obviously just placeholder graphics Solver. I don't think it really matters at this stage.

	10-07-2003 21:42									#44
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Soundign better and better with each new bit of info.

Agriculture and seafaring - guess that they did hear us.

	10-07-2003 21:53									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Solver And for the record, anyone saw WW2 alliance screen? Can there be anything more stupid than a picture of Elizabeth with title "Prime Minister Churchill", and right near it Abe Lincoln titled "President Roosvelt".

On CFC Tavis (A Firaxian) said "the WWII leaderheads will be nicely rendered flags"

I think that sucks btw.

	10-07-2003 21:55									#46
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quote: Those are obviously just placeholder graphics Solver. I don't think it really matters at this stage.

That's not so obvious to me. In fact, by the beta version all placeholders need to be replaced by actual graphics.

	10-07-2003 22:39									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Solver In fact, by the beta version all placeholders need to be replaced by actual graphics.

Says who?

	10-07-2003 22:53									#48
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I'm still confused as to what's in the scenarios and what's in the core game. Also, can the new tweaks in the scenarios, be put in the core game, via the mod.

	10-07-2003 22:53									#49
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Says a person who knows the way software is made. There may surely be changes before the final version... but replacing placeholders with actual graphics is one of the things for beta.

	10-07-2003 23:00									#50
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OK, so we get

2 new difficulty levels
2 new government types (facism and feudalism)
2 new civilisation traits agricultural and sea-faring (so all civs will be re-worked)
7 new civs
revisions to existing unique units
non-combat generated great leaders
locked alliances





Also the comment about controlling enough of the stone resource to build wonders implies, either that the resources deplete with wonder building, or that the number of resources you control of a certain type becomes a factor.

Many of the things higlighted for scenarios will hopefully also get into the editor, which will eventually make it very powerful; and remember

Firaxis has a history of only releasing information on what they will deliver, which means that there may be more goodies to come

	10-07-2003 23:02									#51
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Hm, I'm still like this about this expansion:

Things I like:

- Fascism is back
- Scientific Great Leaders
- Volcanoes (but only if they are available in the main game too, not just in scenarios)
- The scenarios seem to be pretty detailed and full of interesting twists with regards to the main game
- We'll probably have a beefier editor (I'm not thinking about me, I rarely play with the editor, but it will be great for the community)

Things I don't like:

- Pollution graphics representing lava from volcanoes -- don't be lazy, guys... (if these are just placeholder art, then fine)
- These two new civ traits (Agricultural and Seafaring) will probably not be incorporated into the civs as a 3rd option (meaning that every civ could have 3 traits), but they will probably be two more options in the pool from where the two traits are chosen for every civ. I don't like this.

All in all, it seems interesting.

	10-07-2003 23:47									#52
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm The Conquests scenarios are being made using the included Conquests editor.

Note: It's hard to put features in scenarios that don't exist in the real game if you can't do it with the editor.

Ahem.

	11-07-2003 00:03									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Feephi Don't all civs start out as agricultural civs until they fashion weapons to kill animals and become hunter-gatherers?

No, you have that backwards. We started out as hunter-gatherers and then realized that we could keep the animals in pens and breed them instead of following the herds. This was the Agricultural Revolution. It enabled us to stay in one place which led to the growth of cities and, hence, civilization!

	11-07-2003 01:22									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: Those are obviously just placeholder graphics Solver. I don't think it really matters at this stage. That's not so obvious to me. In fact, by the beta version all placeholders need to be replaced by actual graphics.

Chiming in here...

In this case they are placeholders. One man's beta is another man's alpha. By programmer's standards, the beta testers are "pre-beta" testers because the versions they have are not feature complete. In this case it's just the artwork that has to catch up.

But what do I know, I'm in marketing.

Best,
Jeff Foley
Atari

	11-07-2003 01:38									#55
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quote: The Cedars of Lebanon, as refered to in the Bible ("the Lord's voice shatters the Cedars of Lebanon"), were the primary trade staple of the Phoenicians, especially those at Byblos and Tyre.

Thanks for the info. That is cool that they are thinking of that stuff and including it.

Still naming areas of the map would help add depth to scenarios.

Conquests is looking great. And it is nice to see a guy from Atari here.

	11-07-2003 01:44									#56
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For those complaining about the leaderheads for the scenarios...

Keep in mind that 8 leaderheads for PTW kept the artists busy. There will be 8 more in C3C (not all of which are done yet) in addition to all the scenarios. Not quite possible to make a leaderhead for every leader in every scenario, especially when you consider there are a ton of civs in scenarios like Sengoku.

	11-07-2003 02:04									#57
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quote: 2 new difficulty levels

uhm... i wonder how they're going to do this. give the AI 4 settlers and a build factor of 0.2 at "sid" level (btw: neat naming)?
better would be a better AI, but i think they'll only adapt the current AI to the new rules...

i'm still wondering what the new traits do and which starting tech they get.

quote: seafaring

- cheaper coastal buildings?
- cheaper naval units?
- early unique tech to build 1 transport, 1 movement ships from beginning (polynesia?)?
- most likely 1 MP more for naval units, faster promotion (like militaristic for land units)

everything not much of an advantage except on archipelagio maps with a lot of very small islands.
and it would be a complete waste for a civ that doesn't start near a coast! this trait seems underpowered to me...

so i hope this might come together with something else: advanced and better naval warfare: make ships more useful (stronger, faster, civ2-like impassable if fortified, block trade routes without having to cover every city-bordering coastal tile)...
maybe that would make the map generator offer a real archipelagio map style (currently they're just small continents)...

quote: agricultural

i guess this means 1 or 2 food more for cities. however, usually cities over size 7 come later in the game and by then irrigation and even railroad makes food a minor problem.
having 2 food more in the center tile would mean a way too big advantage in the early game. you could easily outrex any oponent. like if you've got an extra wheat...
i think that wouldn't be balanced at all.
faster irrigation? make farms?

	11-07-2003 02:07									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Trip For those complaining about the leaderheads for the scenarios... Keep in mind that 8 leaderheads for PTW kept the artists busy. There will be 8 more in C3C (not all of which are done yet) in addition to all the scenarios. Not quite possible to make a leaderhead for every leader in every scenario, especially when you consider there are a ton of civs in scenarios like Sengoku.

yeah, imagine 18 different animated japanese leaderheads
i guess they'll stick to static pics (enough for me, i just need gameplay)

btw: only 7 new civs (totaling to the maximum of 31 civs)

	11-07-2003 02:24									#59
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf and it would be a complete waste for a civ that doesn't start near a coast! this trait seems underpowered to me...

Don't even know what it does yet and calling it underpowered?

Have you no faith in us getting the game balanced?

	11-07-2003 02:26									#60
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quote: In this case they are placeholders. One man's beta is another man's alpha. By programmer's standards, the beta testers are "pre-beta" testers because the versions they have are not feature complete. In this case it's just the artwork that has to catch up.

I thought that the games that are sent to beta testers are feauture complete. At least that was the case for me... everything in, except the matchmaking (duh), and some minor stuff, maybe.

Well, at any rate, let's hope those were really placeholders.