11-07-2003 02:28									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Well, at any rate, let's hope those were really placeholders.

You doubt the word of someone from Atari working on the project?

	11-07-2003 02:30									#62
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I do. Firstly, it's Firaxis who makes the game - who knows what do they decide. Second, Infogrames/Atari hasn't been exactly great with Civ 3 so far.

	11-07-2003 02:36									#63
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There's a difference between saying "x leaderhead is placeholder art" and "Civ 3's AI will be 20 times better than before!"

One is subjective, the other is not.

	11-07-2003 02:37									#64
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I'd have to agree with Trip. There are, I think, 18 clans in the Sengoku scenario. Besides, there are eight scenarios in all. I think they'll probably do what they did with CivII, take the old leaderheads. For example, I suspect that the Hannibal head will be Hiram's head in the Mesopotamian scenario, and the Medean leader will have Xerxes's face.

	11-07-2003 02:44									#65
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I doubt Atari's brand manager would be so stupid as to make a blatant lie on one of the games' biggest fansites.

Although since he apparently found the registration system for this forum rather taxing I wouldn't put anything past him.
(j/k)

	11-07-2003 03:26									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Don't even know what it does yet and calling it underpowered? Have you no faith in us getting the game balanced?

well, then why don't you tell us what the trait abilities and bonuses are? i did make some suggestions what they could be...

btw: current traits aren't balanced either. some are extremely weak, some extremely powerful (esp. industrial)

	11-07-2003 03:30									#67
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf well, then why don't you tell us what the trait abilities and bonuses are? i did make some suggestions what they could be...

He's not allowed to do that. I expect they made him sign an NDA when he became a tester.

He still like to tease us with little wise-ass comments though. The bastard.

	11-07-2003 03:37									#68
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet He still like to tease us with little wise-ass comments though. The bastard.

I quickly spread already-known or available info, but everything else I keep to myself.

Besides, you know you like it.

	11-07-2003 03:41									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I thought that the games that are sent to beta testers are feauture complete. At least that was the case for me... everything in, except the matchmaking (duh), and some minor stuff, maybe. Well, at any rate, let's hope those were really placeholders.

It depends on the beta. Open beta tests with 1000 people or so are usually with an almost complete version. Other betas can still be a long way off the finished product.

The Conquests beta testers have a version/s that is early enough for them to still have significant input into many issues. And the artists are still busy drawing so there is still placeholder art in many places

	11-07-2003 03:45									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I quickly spread already-known or available info, but everything else I keep to myself. Besides, you know you like it.

Hey I like it!!! Personally, not being a beta-tester is fun as well. We do detective work, by taking apart every article, word for word. We also blow-up screenies, to look for hidden clues. I mean that's better than playing the game, right, right.


BTW, keep the teasers coming Trip!

	11-07-2003 04:14									#71
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Hi Guys,

I think Trip is being really GOOD to us, actually, 'cause he's obviously trying to give us enough info to give us hope, and make us happy, without breaking his agreement with Firaxis . This is a VERY fine line which I think he is woalking VERY WELL!!! Good on you Trip, it's nice to have you on OUR side-so to speak .
Oh, speaking of which, I'm sure you ALL noticed Trip's comment about the extreme difficulty of making Scenarios with certain features IF said features were not available through the editor .
I don't know about the rest of you, but it sounds like VERY GOOD news to me!!!




Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	11-07-2003 05:51									#72
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Well I went from excited to "give it to me now mode"

	11-07-2003 05:57									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I do. Firstly, it's Firaxis who makes the game - who knows what do they decide. Second, Infogrames/Atari hasn't been exactly great with Civ 3 so far.

Aha! Trolling for Atari, now, are we?

Ah, well. Doesn't matter to me. If you don't like what you've seen and read, then nothing I say will convince you. I'll just have to hope the game itself can do the talking.

Best,
Jeff Foley
Atari

	11-07-2003 06:27									#74
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Welcome to the wonder that is Apolyton!! As in a, hmmm, a certain game I know of, one puts up with a few annoyances in order to benefit mightily.

	11-07-2003 06:31									#75
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I wouldn't care so much about Solvers trolls. They're not worth a response. And if they get annoying, there's still an ignore feature.

And while I'm busy sounding off, about Conquests...

New civs and units? Nice, not more.
New traits? Great, if balanced.
Scenarios? Well...
Improved AI? Really? Awesome if true .

All this is good. But the best would be, if you finally fix that effin' multiplayer . I have barely forgiven you PtW. I won't forgive a second time.

Once more: Fix that multiplayer thing!

	11-07-2003 08:25									#76
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We can't release final info on the traits because we have to balance it all first. There are currently 3 companies and hundreds of people working hard to make sure that this game is everything you want it to be! Though I must say that you guys are pretty demanding!! ;-) I like it!!

As for the placeholder art, those images are some of the last ones created. They take about 10 minutes each where the actual leaderheads can take a month. It may not seem like it - but they are extremely art intensive!

Thanks for all of the incredible support!

Trip: How do you get the time to play? You must be the fastest typer on the planet! I'll have to start sending you my bugs =) hehe

	11-07-2003 08:30									#77
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quote: Originally posted by JesseSmith Trip: How do you get the time to play? You must be the fastest typer on the planet! I'll have to start sending you my bugs =) hehe

Being able to type at 120 words per minute helps quite a bit.

Besides, finding bugs is easier than fixing them.

*Trip goes back to testing ******

	11-07-2003 08:36									#78
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Hi there JS,

It's nice to see yet another member of the Firaxis/Atari team 'popping their head in' to let us know what's going on . I might be a little biased, because you guys seem to have adopted at least ONE of my ideas (which makes me VERY proud ), but it seems to me that you guys at Firaxis seem to REALLY want to make the fans happy, and take a genuine interest in all of the reasonable ideas being posted at sites like this one !!! This is, in my opinion, the mark of a truly great game producer !!! Anyway, thanks for the info JS.
Whilst you're in the neighbourhood, can I just ask if you have any intention of bringing Civil Wars back into the game? Also, is there any chance, either in C3C or future XP's, that it might be possible to make certain resources/luxuries 'prohibited'-therefore creating the possibility of a 'black market' trade system?
Anyway, any answers you can give would be GREATLY appreciated, though I understand that you sometimes have to be a little 'sneaky' and 'secretive' about such things . Oh well, I guess it just makes us salivate all the more .

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

p.s.: I agree, Trip seems to possess almost superhuman speed and endurance-good on you Trip, you're a LEGEND .

	11-07-2003 11:54									#79
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Trip is definitely a legend! I'll send you the bug list tomorrow =)

Thanks for the nice comments! I spent a month going through the fan forums organizing everyones input and feedback into a list of do-ables, then got programmer info on timing, cut the list and cut the list and cut the list and cut the list (we are trying to have a bug free product so we can't go completely overboard!) until we had something manageable - and items that will offer a whole new experience and dynamic to the Civ3 experience. It was agreed to move forward and here we are!! Trust me when I say that we value all of your opinions and feedback and want more than anything to give you the game that will have you spend many hours of your life playing while in a state of complete enjoyment. The editor is there to allow you to keep those hours coming and coming and coming. Though, to beat all 9 Conquests with every Civ and the Core Game with every Civ will take a considerably LONG time =)

I can't give any more info on the changes or future items, but I can tell you that we are all working VERY hard (Firaxis, Atari, & Breakaway) to continue creating the games that you will love to play.

Thanks again! We are here because of all of you!!!!!

Jesse

	11-07-2003 11:58									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Besides, finding bugs is easier than fixing them.

Trip: You would be suprised - most people ignore the polish issues because they seem so obvious - finding a bug means nothing if you dont write it up clearly so it can be easily fixed. Most bugs with clear info can be fixed pretty quickly (unless tech probs occur).

The sooner an issue is documented, the sooner it can be fixed and removed. Tracking the major issues and the Polish issues is key to making sure C3C is what it needs to be.

Not that bug writing has ever been a problem with you!!

Jesse

	11-07-2003 12:02									#81
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quote: Originally posted by JesseSmith Trip: You would be suprised - most people ignore the polish issues because they seem so obvious - finding a bug means nothing if you dont write it up clearly so it can be easily fixed. Most bugs with clear info can be fixed pretty quickly (unless tech probs occur). The sooner an issue is documented, the sooner it can be fixed and removed. Tracking the major issues and the Polish issues is key to making sure C3C is what it needs to be.

That's true. I'll say that some bugs are easier to find than to fix. Though in a way finding them leads to fixing them, so if you don't find them well enough you can't fix them.

quote: Not that bug writing has ever been a problem with you!! Jesse

I like to type.

	11-07-2003 12:30									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Myrddin Firaxis has a history of only releasing information on what they will deliver, which means that there may be more goodies to come

like multiplayer out of the box in civ3?

	11-07-2003 13:33									#83
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quote: Originally posted by JesseSmith We can't release final info on the traits because we have to balance it all first. There are currently 3 companies and hundreds of people working hard to make sure that this game is everything you want it to be! Though I must say that you guys are pretty demanding!! ;-) I like it!!

And how are you planning to include new traits?

Will they be availabale for only new civs?
Or are they to be added to exsisting civs too?
And if added to exsisting civs, would they lose some of older traits or not?

	11-07-2003 13:34									#84
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quote: Originally posted by player1 Or are they to be added to exsisting civs too? And if added to exsisting civs, would they lose some of older traits or not?

The answer to both those questions is yes. It's mentioned in the Gamespot preview.

	11-07-2003 17:21									#85
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quote: Aha! Trolling for Atari, now, are we?

Sorry, guys, there definitely have been issues with you so far. From what I know, the publisher is responsible for user manuals. And, as Firaxis said, it were you who are responsible for the fact that a certain patch took very long to get released in an European edition.

Jesse - thanks for the nice support from Firaxis . You guys remain great.

Oh, and a little phrase that is hard for me to resist, although no offense is intended to Atari. Creating a game is harder than the work of publisher - I am saying that because I have a good idea of how they are created. This is not to say that publishing is a cakewalk, but it's nothing like creating a game.

Oh, and I'm not complaining about the game or anything anyway, so .

	11-07-2003 22:47									#86
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Do you think they will go back and change England to seafaring or adjust any of the previous Civs to the new cultures?

	11-07-2003 22:58									#87
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quote: Originally posted by jaranyi Do you think they will go back and change England to seafaring or adjust any of the previous Civs to the new cultures?

i can't imagine them changing the rules for the basic game.
it would mean existing strategies for some civs would change.

maybe there'll be 2 "new games": classic civ3 rules and C3C rules ?!?

however, IF they do change current settings, it would be nice to see some changes for the existing traits.
e.g.
- make expansionist more powerful on smaller and standard maps and weaker on huge pangea maps.
- reduce dominance of industrious slightly
- make AI use traits better (e.g. attack more with militaristic, change governements more frequently for religious)

	11-07-2003 23:10									#88
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"Conquests will also include all of the content and features from the Play the World expansion"

So I don't need PTW to get the civs included with it?

WOW!

	11-07-2003 23:16									#89
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exactly, you'll get all functions and civs from PTW (and probably even the newer versions of the scenarios)

	11-07-2003 23:18									#90
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quote: Do you think they will go back and change England to seafaring or adjust any of the previous Civs to the new cultures?

quote: i can't imagine them changing the rules for the basic game. it would mean existing strategies for some civs would change.

Funnily enough the answers to this are the same as when Solver asked them about 4 posts ago.

It says in the Gamespot preview that some of the existing Civs will have their traits changed to incorporate Seafaring and Agricultural (where appropriate). The UUs are also open to some tweaking.