10-07-2003 08:51									#1
	GODLY: Decide Tassadar's Fate Full PM-box? Change here!

The God has spoken. He has presented us with three options.....And the peoples must choose.

OPTIONS:

1. Ban him!
2. Let him rejoin his comrades in the Hive
3. Let him become the right hand man of GooglieGod.

This poll will disappear in 3 DAYS.

	10-07-2003 08:56									#2
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Is this one person one vote or one faction one vote? I'm joking. Don't intend to open that old jar of worms ...

It is unfair to Tass if we ban him and it is unfair to other factions if we let Tass remain with Hive. I trust Comrade Tass (is this the last time I will call you comrade? ) will become a good right-hand man of GooglieGod.

	10-07-2003 09:02									#3
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Note that Option 2 (Let him rejoin his comrade in the Hive has game repercussions in that I will intitiate the Tass Manoeuvre for all factions to put them on a level playing field

(Note that there would be one beneficial effect - the game would speed up somewhat during these formative years)

G

	10-07-2003 09:30									#4
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu I trust Comrade Tass (is this the last time I will call you comrade? )

Of course not! I will be Lord Comrades to all One couold say I would become the SON OF GOD

	10-07-2003 09:43									#5
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'TassadarGod' just doesn't sound right.

Ahh, what the hell. We should inflict his spam on the other factions.

TASSADAR FOR GOD!

	10-07-2003 09:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Octavian X 'TassadarGod' just doesn't sound right. Ahh, what the hell. We should inflict his spam on the other factions. TASSADAR FOR GOD!

"TassGod". "Lord Tass". "Tassadar the Lord in Heaven". "ComradeGod.".

	10-07-2003 10:51									#7
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I like Tass inflicting spam.

	10-07-2003 13:46									#8
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Yay! I'm on my, currently with 5/7 votes, to godlihood! Then 1 vote for me to join the Hive And then Archaic.

	10-07-2003 15:55									#9
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quote: Then 1 vote for me to join the Hive

Me. I like speeding up.

	10-07-2003 20:12									#10
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Hmm - interesting split so far (2-5-5 at this time)

And an interesting correlation with the other, similar, poll

Combined, it would seem to be a marginal vote for the Tass manoeuvre

G.

	10-07-2003 23:41									#11
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What's the Tass Manoeuvre? Dodes it invole you playing the next few turns? If it does, I am strongly against that. There are many things that need to be planned and close attention among the CyCon, and to have a non-faction member playing, especially playing other factions too, could prove disasterous.

	11-07-2003 00:02									#12
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No - it doesn't involve playing ahead (and to reveal what it is that Tass stumbled on would, I suspect, have every faction then doing it, thereby tacitly forcing Option 2 on everyone)

And maybe I'm over-reacting and perhaps it's been known since the start of PBEMs - but as I say, I've never seen it discussed in a list of "no no's" for PBEM conduct (but then I've also never seen the prohibition "no opening of a .sav file with Word to read in-game communications" - perhaps by not mentioning that one (and the Tass one) the few who know about it believe they can avoid its proliferation . 'cos it's something that just cannot be policied and verified

(of course the cynic in me says that maybe they don't want to publicize it to get it banned 'cos it gives them such a huge in-game advantage)

G.

	11-07-2003 00:42									#13
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You can just open them with Word? That's really weird

	11-07-2003 00:44									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue What's the Tass Manoeuvre? Dodes it invole you playing the next few turns? If it does, I am strongly against that. There are many things that need to be planned and close attention among the CyCon, and to have a non-faction member playing, especially playing other factions too, could prove disasterous.

From my understanding, it involves me simply going back to the Hive.

I would prefer God, as....well, it's less game-unbalancing

	11-07-2003 00:47									#15
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I garee with Tass. Assistant God/Historian is what I want. With the Tass manoeuvre in place, it would wreck the game I implore everyone not to pick it. I don't want to know who has met and what they have said, and I don't want other factions to know that. It would completely unbalance the game.

	11-07-2003 00:50									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I garee with Tass. Assistant God/Historian is what I want. With the Tass manoeuvre in place, it would wreck the game I implore everyone not to pick it. I don't want to know who has met and what they have said, and I don't want other factions to know that. It would completely unbalance the game.

Yeah. I find it crazy that people would even think of choosing the option (Except Hivers. They DEFINATELY want me back ). I, however, suspect that the Godly choice will win out.

	11-07-2003 00:59									#17
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Hmm, I must confess I really begin to wonder what kind of terrible cheat Tassadar has discovered. I'll have to ask him when this ACDG is over.

	11-07-2003 01:04									#18
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I posted it in the Game Parameters thread as a banned procedure (but as unpoliceable, its compliance relies on trust and honour)

G.

	11-07-2003 01:12									#19
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Oh, that! I've known about that for ages. I first discovered it accidentally in FW5 IIRC when I somehow quitted in a completely wrong way. Not that this accidental information helped me: I lost anyway. IMHO it isn't such a powerful cheat: it only does a few years off first-contact if one would be really determined to find others.

	11-07-2003 01:13									#20
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I think we need a bit of clarity here.
First I don't want Tass 'researching PEACE' files, I simply don't trust him.
What is the Tass manoeuvre? Private emails to factions members?
A lot of these questions I raised at the outset.
The reading of Sav files in Word is fascinating, except I can't. In RL it would count as legitimate intelligence gathering. New one on me.

	11-07-2003 02:20									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules What is the Tass manoeuvre?

here

	11-07-2003 03:26									#22
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Now that the actual transgression has seemingly been spelled out, perhaps it can be quickly resolved.

If this is the reason that the Hive has been sitting on their turn, I wonder why they would receive a turn dispensation; was it so that they could be the first to take advantage of the information (sooner than anyone else) if the info is disseminated to all? A strange benefit to accord the faction whose member's questionable action precipitated the problem.

As to Tass himself, I personally feel that since he was up front enough to discuss this openly and even offer to resign from the Hive over it, I would trust him to keep it to himself until it becomes known in the normal course of the game.

quote: (from Googlie) Note that Option 2 (Let him rejoin his comrade in the Hive has game repercussions in that I will intitiate the Tass Manoeuvre for all factions to put them on a level playing field.

This giving out of the information to all, that would be particularly and blatently unfair to us Pirates; that sort of thing is one of our faction's built-in strong points, and to give it out free to everyone would be like giving out free techs from the research factions or free units from the Hive & Drones to reduce their industry benefits.

All this public discussion of the various exploits is itself also potentially damaging insofar as it could tempt someone else into crossing that thin line with some dubious rationalization such as 'well, everyone else must know it by now'. This whole matter would likely have been better handled without all this publicity, especially since the publicity was mostly non-information, leading to all the speculation and ensuing curiosity and potential additional violations.

	11-07-2003 03:39									#23
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller If this is the reason that the Hive has been sitting on their turn, I wonder why they would receive a turn dispensation; was it so that they could be the first to take advantage of the information (sooner than anyone else) if the info is disseminated to all?

Perhaps that conclusion is drawn too fast. There could be lots of other reasons, for example they could have met another faction, or the usual turn player could be unavailable, leaving the others at a loss what to do. (IIRC I previously read only one person is concentrating on the gameplay, and the others are roleplaying.)

quote: This giving out of the information to all, that would be particularly and blatently unfair to us Pirates; that sort of thing is one of our faction's built-in strong points,

Actually you would be the faction gaining most advantage out of it if everyone was allowed to use the Tassadar Manoeuvre, as sea bases don't show up on the faction expansion animation when you resign or win, only land bases. For that reason it would be very unfair for everyone but you if everyone was allowed to pull the same trick as Tassadar.

	11-07-2003 03:59									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Perhaps that conclusion is drawn too fast...

Perhaps.

quote: Actually you would be the faction gaining most advantage out of it if everyone was allowed to use the Tassadar Manoeuvre, as sea bases don't show up on the faction expansion animation when you resign or win, only land bases. For that reason it would be very unfair for everyone but you if everyone was allowed to pull the same trick as Tassadar.

I'm talking about our ability to find the other factions in game, and the value of that information. It wouldn't be totally bad for us, as we could take advantage of the info better than others, but would you pay for someone's commlink if you knew they were just across that little strait next to you? We would only be invisible to the extent we didn't have any land bases, and where would we be able to bury our booty then?

	11-07-2003 04:10									#25
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quote: I'm talking about our ability to find the other factions in game

Ah. Good point indeed. Anyway, I don't think this will become an issue, as no one except HongHu and Googlie IIRC have proposed to let everyone use the Tassadar Manoeuvre.

	11-07-2003 04:41									#26
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quote: I simply don't trust him.

And whys that? If I really wanted to cheat, I could do MUCH more

quote: If this is the reason that the Hive has been sitting on their turn, I wonder why they would receive a turn dispensation; was it so that they could be the first to take advantage of the information (sooner than anyone else) if the info is disseminated to all? A strange benefit to accord the faction whose member's questionable action precipitated the problem.

Actually...Well, I don't think I'm at liberty to discuss why the Hive is sitting on their turn. But suffice to say, it has nothing to do with me.

	11-07-2003 05:01									#27
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Why don't we just dress up Tass in a Miriam outfit and put him actually into the game, not just playing it, but really in it; I think we could all live with the extra knowledge the Believer's would have given the special fringe benefits we would get.

	11-07-2003 07:25									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Anyway, I don't think this will become an issue, as no one except HongHu and Googlie IIRC have proposed to let everyone use the Tassadar Manoeuvre.

This will not become an issue from me as I was proposing it as a tentative solution to the problem and was actually very glad that we don't have to go that route.

BTW, the hive's turn delay is not related to this issue. Kody was playing the turn and in the middle he had issues that he didn't believe he should decide by himself. So he came back to the forum and we had some discussion. You know in Hive somebody not being a Chairman only has this much authority.

	11-07-2003 07:44									#29
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller Why don't we just dress up Tass in a Miriam outfit and put him actually into the game, not just playing it, but really in it; I think we could all live with the extra knowledge the Believer's would have given the special fringe benefits we would get.

....

Unfortunately, I'm already a prisoner of the believers

	11-07-2003 10:48									#30
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No it isn't. This one is.