10-07-2003 10:13									#1
	Ottoman War Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Our peace proposal with the Ottomans ends in 3 turns. We have some attack units near the Ottoman city of Izmit. Should we attack?

	10-07-2003 10:48									#2
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hi ,

no , we should wait

have a nice day

	10-07-2003 10:55									#3
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During the last turn (650 BC) it was revealed that the Ottomans were working on Sun Tzu's which means they are in the middle ages and with knowledge of Feudalism.

Attacking the Ottomans has an advantage:

- First of all, they lack iron which means they won't be able to field pikes. S

- Izmit has horses and a fur.

- We can capture about 3 cites, perhaps 4 and we can sue for peace and get Feudalism.

- We upgrade our forces and go against the Iroquois.

There is a little problem though, we can't get Feud until we get Construction and Currency beforehand. That means we need to whore something or buy them from someone...and they are expensive.

Anyway, this is just a thought. Just consider that the Iroquois might get Feud and swords against pikes...

	10-07-2003 13:59									#4
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Sounds good. I was wondering why on earth we were going after the Iroquois without attacking the Ottomans first anyhow.

	10-07-2003 18:04									#5
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The Ottos are our b*t*h*s now. Leave them be for a bit. They have no iron. We will be able to pick them apart at our leasure. Plus they are commited to building a wonder in a near by city. Let them build a wonder and then take it. If they have started now, they will most likely build Sun Tzu's, Sistine's or Leo's. I think they will manage one of these three. It will be protected by spears (maybe muskets). We could net a FREE wonder. Get our techs from either the Iroquis (best if done quickly), the Zulu (next best choice if Iroquis get Pike) or the Celts (last choice. I don't want to see 2 move swords comming at us without Pikes to defend with). Leave the Ottos be for now.

	10-07-2003 18:33									#6
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I agree with Don and I think we need to get some Ironq cities sooner rather than later.

	10-07-2003 18:52									#7
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I'm undecided. Don makes some very valid points - and I have been a strong proponent of the "Iroq next" approach.

However - taking out the Ottoman should be relatively easy - and eliminates any possibility of a two front war.

And btw - I would very much like to see more warrior production for upgrades to swords and then med inf. This is our best short-term offensive option.

I agree that in the medium term - a large archer upgrade to beserkers will be needed.

Or - we stick with an archer campaign now - which means we go quickly before the Iroq get pikes. Either way, using swords or archers, if we are going to go after the Iroq - do it soon.

The archer campaign would give us a good base for later upgrade.

Anyways - some rambling thoughts.

Keep the debate going.

	10-07-2003 19:53									#8
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I want to take out 5 iroq cities now. Later will be too late IMHO. That gets us our needed first lux (firs) and weekend the iroq significantly (these are their most fertal lands). Then we take out the ottomans. Then, we either finish off the iroq, or march west into celt and zulu lands. Also, we will need to time our golden age appropriatly. Time to think soon.

	10-07-2003 19:54									#9
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I'm wondering if in 3 turns that we should instead demand a tech from the Otts first?

	10-07-2003 20:58									#10
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Let the Ottos build a wonder for us to grab later.

Smack the Iroq. around before they grow too large.

	10-07-2003 21:24									#11
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I say continue with our plans for the Iroquois. It's the concept of oscillating war. If we attack only the Ottomans then we can destroy them, but in the meantime it lets our other neighbors build peacefully. Oscillating war attacks multiple civs in succession so that none of them can get too big and challenge us. If we leave the Otto's for now then we can hopefully get a wonder from them when we crush them later, but we need to take the Iroquois down a bit before they get big and are able to tie us down with them instead of proceeding with our world conquest plans.

	12-07-2003 00:36									#12
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hi ,

before we should go after the iro , we should secure our borders more firmly with the zulu , .....

have a nice day

	12-07-2003 01:42									#13
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Look at the save Panag. The zulu are not comming any closser to us... we ahve a wall of spears on the mountains, and our cities are major forts.

	12-07-2003 05:32									#14
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing Look at the save Panag. The zulu are not comming any closser to us... we ahve a wall of spears on the mountains, and our cities are major forts.

hi ,

seen it , but still dont like it , ...

we should take gnome

have a nice day

	12-07-2003 06:57									#15
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Iroquois now, Ottomans later.

The Iroquois have iron, so we need to strike them before they can get pikemen everywhere. The Ottomans have no iron, so we can let them build their wonder, then take it later. We just have to take them out before they get musketmen everywhere.

	13-07-2003 06:35									#16
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Iroquois now, Ottos later. As Jonny stated and others have stated.

	13-07-2003 07:28									#17
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Iroquois first.
Btw, I have some issues to deal in my RL... that's why I've been absent. As soon as possible, I'll be back!