11-07-2003 03:08									#31
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If it's too easy you might start to get ideas...

	11-07-2003 03:09									#32
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The master who set him up? Pick up an Iraqi history book onefoot; I get tired of hearing the same lies about the big bad US "setup" Saddam and how we "gave" them chemical weapons. 15 years worth of investigative reporting has shown time and again that both of these accussations are baseless but that doesn't stop people from endlessly repeating them.

	11-07-2003 03:12									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber You must have a serious psychological problem if sometime like this makes you feel good about yourself. I suggest you find something to fill the gigantic hole that must be in your life.

No I just think of all the plonkers like you who fell for it or felt compelled to defend what any rational person could have seen was a pack of lies.

Yah boo sucks to you.

	11-07-2003 03:13									#34
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quote: 15 years worth of investigative reporting has shown time and again that both of these accussations are baseless but that doesn't stop people from endlessly repeating them.

Is that the same worth of investigative reporting about the Iraqi WMD's? That doesn't stop people from endlessly repeating them.

	11-07-2003 03:13									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Gotta say I wake up every day feeling pretty smug about the war. All you right wing pro-war twits were taken in by a pack of transparent lies. Worse, all the communists and liberals here told you they were lies and you didn't believe them, you saps! bwhahahahahahaha.

Well, I'd be more inclined to label myself a centrist (unless you're a friggin' commie) anti-war non-twit, but I don't think many people were taken in. It was more "you mean we actually have to come up with an excuse for ridding the world of this *******?"

And people on both sides are dying, so if you feel smug, you're an asswipe.

	11-07-2003 03:14									#36
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quote: What makes you think I want you to succeed in turning Iraq into the 21st century's postwar Japan?

... why... wouldn't... you? It'd be good for the people of the Iraq and the MidEast.

	11-07-2003 03:15									#37
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quote: It was more "you mean we actually have to come up with an excuse for ridding the world of this *******?"

Yes you do.

	11-07-2003 03:19									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij quote: 15 years worth of investigative reporting has shown time and again that both of these accussations are baseless but that doesn't stop people from endlessly repeating them. Is that the same worth of investigative reporting about the Iraqi WMD's? That doesn't stop people from endlessly repeating them.

Actually, there's a whole shitload of primary documentation on file in the Federal District Court in Atlanta, as a result of the BNL criminal cases. The exact extent and nature of US involvement is well documented. It's quite a bit more than the right-wingers and pro-Reagan / Bush I crowd like to admit, but far less than the typical leftist rant.

	11-07-2003 03:21									#39
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..."plonkers"?

Jackass.

	11-07-2003 03:22									#40
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well I did a couple of threads on this a while ago, but US did help him at first, he did balace in the whole deal betwen USSR and the US as it suited him, for a while, with Iran he got to be a good boy again, after Iran, he screwed up... but US was the country who set him up at the beginning, if he decided to be a good boy, Iraq would be US friend and a prosperous country even more than it was in the 70's and 80's, however he screwed with US support, and now was overthrown buy former lover... this is how it goes....

as for some more mainstream information go here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/

quote: There was a coup in Iraq in 1963. What do we know about the U.S. involvement in that coup? The U.S. involvement in the coup against Kassem in Iraq in 1963 was substantial. There is evidence that CIA agents were in touch with army officers who were involved in the coup. There is evidence that an electronic command center was set up in Kuwait to guide the forces who were fighting Kassem. There is evidence that they supplied the conspirators with lists of people who had to be eliminated immediately in order to ensure success. The relationship between the Americans and the Ba'ath Party at that moment in time was very close indeed. And that continued for some time after the coup. And there was an exchange of information between the two sides. For example it was one of the first times that the United States was able to get certain models of Mig fighters and certain tanks made in the Soviet Union. That was the bribe. That was what the Ba'ath had to offer the United States in return for their help in eliminating Kassem.

just for fun...

one way or the other, you cannot deny if he was a good boy (even though he might have killed X amount of his own citizens) US would never have taken him down, so... well but that is beside the point...

	11-07-2003 03:23									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Well, I'd be more inclined to label myself a centrist (unless you're a friggin' commie) anti-war non-twit, but I don't think many people were taken in. It was more "you mean we actually have to come up with an excuse for ridding the world of this *******?" And people on both sides are dying, so if you feel smug, you're an asswipe.

You, a centrist?

Plenty of people were taken in according to the polls.

Frankly I hope this ends up as a costly war, that way Bush and his usual gang of idiots might think twice next time before they swaggering round the world like spoiled children and causing more unnecessary death and chaos.

I'm not particularly happy about this, but Dumbo has basically made it so that this is about the best outcome one could reasonably hope for. God knows, if it was successful, he'd waste no time in trying to flatten some other country for spurious reasons.

	11-07-2003 03:25									#42
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk ..."plonkers"? Jackass.

Get English, you pillock!

	11-07-2003 03:27									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You, a centrist? Plenty of people were taken in according to the polls. Frankly I hope this ends up as a costly war, that way Bush and his usual gang of idiots might think twice next time before they swaggering round the world like spoiled children and causing more unnecessary death and chaos. I'm not particularly happy about this, but Dumbo has basically made it so that this is about the best outcome one could reasonably hope for. God knows, if it was successful, he'd waste no time in trying to flatten some other country for spurious reasons.

Seriously man, get some help. I'm not an expert, but this obsesion you have with other people's suffering is kind of creepy

	11-07-2003 03:30									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Seriously man, get some help. I'm not an expert, but this obsesion you have with other people's suffering is kind of creepy

What's wrong with wanting to see the evil suffer in order to prevent further greater evil?

	11-07-2003 03:32									#45
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And there you have it. From the mouth of a commie.

	11-07-2003 03:33									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon What's wrong with wanting to see the evil suffer in order to prevent further greater evil?

You sound like a religious fundy. I'm sure there have been many people say those exact lines. No use in worring about the inocent that will die as long as Agathon can feel smug in the morning

	11-07-2003 03:36									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You, a centrist?

Like I said, unless you're a friggin' commie, Mr "Left of Lenin"

	11-07-2003 03:36									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Get English, you pillock!

Get stuffed, jerk.

Sprayber was over there.

	11-07-2003 03:41									#49
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Get stuffed, jerk. Sprayber was over there.

Actually me and my unit are still in the purgatory that is Fort Sill still waiting to go over there. It's gonna be a long couple of years for us.

	11-07-2003 03:43									#50
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Sill?

You have my deepest sympathies.

	11-07-2003 03:47									#51
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Sill? You have my deepest sympathies.

I had basic training here and swore I'd never be back. Of course Uncle Sam made no such promise.

	11-07-2003 03:49									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Actually me and my unit are still in the purgatory that is Fort Sill still waiting to go over there. It's gonna be a long couple of years for us.

Quit if you can. Don't get involved in this stupidity. Your government is a dishonest bunch of fundamentalist lunatics who couldn't give a damn about their own soldiers when it comes to the crunch and would gladly sacrifice them to its ill-conceived ends.

And FTR Blair is not much better - actually he's worse in some respects.

	11-07-2003 03:50									#53
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Get stuffed, jerk.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but George Bush is an idiot.

And so are those who defend him.

	11-07-2003 03:59									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Quit if you can. Don't get involved in this stupidity. Your government is a dishonest bunch of fundamentalist lunatics who couldn't give a damn about their own soldiers when it comes to the crunch and would gladly sacrifice them to its ill-conceived ends. And FTR Blair is not much better - actually he's worse in some respects.

Fortunately, the post-Vietnam effect is still that the US Government has no choice but to consider the fate of significant numbers of soldiers - casualties are always a consideration, because the survival of the government politically depends on public perception.

	11-07-2003 04:08									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Quit if you can. Don't get involved in this stupidity. Your government is a dishonest bunch of fundamentalist lunatics who couldn't give a damn about their own soldiers when it comes to the crunch and would gladly sacrifice them to its ill-conceived ends. And FTR Blair is not much better - actually he's worse in some respects.

I agree with Agathon. A dishonorable discharge isn't as bad as they make it out to be. You may not return the same, or you may not return.

	11-07-2003 04:13									#56
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A rather different but still extremely difficult situation...no need to use such labels, though it is still too soon to know for sure.

	11-07-2003 04:16									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I agree with Agathon. A dishonorable discharge isn't as bad as they make it out to be. You may not return the same, or you may not return.

It's ok. I don't expect you to understand things such as doing your duty and fullfilling your word. I won't hold it against you too much.

	11-07-2003 04:20									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber It's ok. I don't expect you to understand things such as doing your duty and fullfilling your word. I won't hold it against you too much.

You don't owe them that.

	11-07-2003 04:24									#59
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A dishonorable discharge, and you've screwed the pooch.
I don't know who's been blowing rainbows up your ass about that little fact.

	11-07-2003 04:27									#60
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When you sign your name to a contract and take an oath, you don't just run whenever it suits you or if it gets a little tough. At least that was the way I was raised. Perhaps that way of thinking isn't cool these days but I'm comfortable with it.