11-07-2003 15:28									#1
	The Jews, I find are very, very selfish Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

...was part of a diary entry Truman wrote in 1947.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2003Jul10.html
(thanks to Drudge for the link)

quote: Harry Truman's Forgotten Diary 1947 Writings Offer Fresh Insight on the President The president's diary, written in the back of a book donated to the Truman Library in 1965, was discovered by a librarian reshelving books. (Hyosub Shin -- The Washington Post) By Rebecca Dana and Peter Carlson Washington Post Staff Writers Friday, July 11, 2003; Page A01 "The Jews, I find are very, very selfish," President Harry S. Truman wrote in a 1947 diary that was recently discovered on the shelves of the Truman Library in Independence, Mo., and released by the National Archives yesterday. Written sporadically during a turbulent year of Truman's presidency, the diary contains about 5,500 words on topics ranging from the death of his mother to comic banter with a British aristocrat. But the most surprising comments were Truman's remarks on Jews, written on July 21, 1947, after the president had a conversation with Henry Morgenthau, the Jewish former treasury secretary. Morgenthau called to talk about a Jewish ship in Palestine -- possibly the Exodus, the legendary ship carrying 4,500 Jewish refugees who were refused entry into Palestine by the British, then rulers of that land. "He'd no business, whatever to call me," Truman wrote. "The Jews have no sense of proportion nor do they have any judgement [sic] on world affairs. Henry brought a thousand Jews to New York on a supposedly temporary basis and they stayed." Truman then went into a rant about Jews: "The Jews, I find, are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog. Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes." Yesterday, those comments startled scholars because Truman is known as a president who acted to help Jews in postwar Europe and who supported recognition of Israel in 1948, when his State Department opposed it. "My reaction is: Wow! It did surprise me because of what I know about Truman's record," says Sara J. Bloomfield, director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. "Truman's sympathy for the plight of Jews was very apparent." But Truman's comments were, Bloomfield says, "typical of a sort of cultural anti-Semitism that was common at that time in all parts of American society. This was an acceptable way to talk." "Truman was often critical, sometimes hypercritical, of Jews in his diary entries and in his correspondences, but this doesn't make him an anti-Semite," says John Lewis Gaddis, a professor of history at Yale University and a prominent Cold War scholar. "Anyone who played the role he did in creating the state of Israel can hardly be regarded in that way." Throughout his presidency, which lasted from 1945 to 1953, Truman was a prolific but sporadic diarist, jotting down his thoughts in diary books and on loose pieces of paper. This newly discovered diary appeared in a book titled "The Real Estate Board of New York, Inc., Diary and Manual 1947." The book, which begins with 160 printed pages of information about the Real Estate Board, was donated to the Truman Library in 1965, seven years before his death, and has sat on shelves there ever since. Apparently its tedious title scared scholars away and nobody noticed Truman's handwritten comments in the diary section in the back of the book until recently, when a librarian reshelving books happened to see them. "This is probably the most important document the Truman Library has opened in 20 years," Michael J. Devine, the library's director, said in a prepared statement. "Once again, in this diary, we are able to hear that strong personal voice that Truman almost always projected in his writings." In one memorable entry, Truman recounts a meeting at which he offered to yield the 1948 Democratic presidential nomination to Gen. Dwight Eisenhower if Gen. Douglas MacArthur campaigned for the Republican nomination. Truman's comments on Eisenhower and MacArthur came in an entry dated July 25, 1947, years before Truman's famous firing of Gen. MacArthur during the Korean War. In the entry, he wrote of a discussion that afternoon with Eisenhower, who was then Army chief of staff. "We discussed MacArthur and his superiority complex," Truman wrote. "Ike & I think MacArthur expects to make a Roman Triumphal return to the U.S. a short time before the Republican Convention meets in Philadelphia. I told Ike that if he did that that he (Ike) should announce for the nomination for President on the Democratic ticket and that I'd be glad to be in second place, or Vice President. I like the Senate anyway. Ike & I could be elected and my family & myself would be happy outside this great white jail known as the White House." Truman did not reveal how Eisenhower, who was elected president as a Republican in 1952, reacted to his suggestion. He did note that he and Ike agreed to keep quiet about it: "Ike won't quot [sic] me & I won't quote him." But Eisenhower did tell the story to confidants, and it leaked out and was recounted in "Eisenhower," a 1983 biography by Stephen E. Ambrose. "At the time, Truman's chances for reelection appeared to be nil," Ambrose wrote. "Eisenhower assumed that Truman wanted to use him to pull the Democrats out of an impossible situation. The general wanted nothing to do with the Democratic Party; his answer was a flat 'No.' " Eisenhower sat out the 1948 election, as did MacArthur. Truman ran against New York Gov. Thomas Dewey and won a stunning upset victory. The diary contains several other interesting Truman comments. He had praise for Gen. George C. Marshall, whom he appointed secretary of state: "Marshall is, I think the greatest man of the World War II. He managed to get along with Roosevelt, the Congress, Churchill, the Navy and the Joint Chiefs of Staff and he made a grand record in China." On Jan. 6, he wrote: "Read my annual message. It was good if I do say it myself. . . . Clark Clifford did most of the work. He's a nice boy and will go places." In that comment, Truman proved prescient. Clifford, then a 40-year-old Truman aide, later became an aide to President John F. Kennedy, secretary of defense under Lyndon Johnson and a major Washington power broker until his death in 1998. On March 7, he wrote: "Doc tell's [sic] me I have Cardiac Asthma! Aint that hell. Well it makes no diff, will go on as before. I've sworn him to secrecy! So What!" On July 28 -- "terrible day" -- Truman wrote about his mother's funeral. "Along the road cars, trucks and pedestrians stood with hats off. It made me want to weep -- but I couldn't in public. I've read through thousands of messages from all over the world in the White House study and I can shed tears as I please -- no one's looking." But Truman's famed plain-spoken wit is also evident in the diary. On July 4, after attending Independence Day festivities in Monticello, Va., he wrote a passage that can only be called Trumanesque: "Mrs. Astor -- Lady Astor came to the car just before we started from Monticello to say to me that she liked my policies as President but that she thought I had become rather too much 'Yankee.' I couldnt help telling her that my purported 'Yankee' tendencies were not half so bad as her ultra conservative British leanings. She almost had a stroke." © 2003 The Washington Post Company

Does this change your view of Truman in any way?

	11-07-2003 15:45									#2
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Nah, Truman was a bagman for the Pendergast gang operating out of Kansas City and it was through that corrupt system he made his climb to power, so I already had a negative view of him. But his comment about underdogs so often becoming tyrants was quite accurate.

	11-07-2003 16:19									#3
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No sweat. You still had Jim Crow around, so why should we be offended by a stupid comment in a book?

	11-07-2003 18:04									#4
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I dunno if it changes my opinion of him, but I found the article very interesting. Thanks, TMM.

-Arrian

	11-07-2003 19:56									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel No sweat. You still had Jim Crow around, so why should we be offended by a stupid comment in a book?

Basically i wouldnt be surprised if there are also anti-black quotes, despite Trumans lead role in integrating the US armed forces. He may have made anti-semitic quotes in the privacy of his diary, but he had close Jewish friends and recognized Israel. In no way were his actions as Pres, or his public life anti-semitic, nor was he a social anti-semite in his private life. I would put this in that context, just as HL Menckens anti-Black comments in his diary must be put in the context of his involvement in anti-lynching campaigns, and helping found the NAACP. And with somewhat less excuse for Mencken, who was a more cultured man then Truman.

	11-07-2003 20:49									#6
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I don't know, I think it was the last honest thing he could have said, voicing an opinion that was probably shared by others, particularly people he respected, but I'm willing to bet that like most people, they didn't want to hear ANY criticism, even if they really were doing something wrong.

Isn't that the way of America? I can spill my own coffee into my own lap, but I can sue Starbuck's for making the coffee hot in the first place, even though no-one was holding a gun to my head to steal my $2 to buy my cup of coffee. It's the great American dream - make a whole lotta money off other people's stupidity!

Like the Lotto - the tax on people who failed Statistics.

	11-07-2003 20:50									#7
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not a big deal... i'm sure Azazel would agree... just look at my sig...

	11-07-2003 21:10									#9
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quote: from Truman Truman then went into a rant about Jews: "The Jews, I find, are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog. Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes."

I think that bolded in part is what matters, unless Truman was also anti-Negro, Mormon, Labor, Management, Baptist, Russian.

	11-07-2003 21:12									#10
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Labor? Management?

	11-07-2003 21:14									#11
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Do you have a problem with the phrase?

	11-07-2003 21:18									#12
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i dont get why he threw in labor and management in there... he was listing ethnicities and religious groups and threw in, of all things, labor and management...

	11-07-2003 21:19									#13
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Doesn;t change the reality of the comment: when either of those groups have the upper hand, they are ruthless, forgetting completely what it is to be the underdog, which is the point.

	11-07-2003 21:20									#14
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quote: Like the Lotto - the tax on people who failed Statistics

I never took statistics... but I didn't when the lotto, again!!!!

quote: I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes."

I think that's a very good observation.

Though I too don't understand why labor and management were thrown in...

	11-07-2003 21:26									#15
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quote: Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes

Very smart observation. I agree with GePap. It doesn't seem like Truman is anti-semetic, just that the Jewish problem with Palestine was brought up around that time and they were the 'underdog who went to the top'. It is true that they did not care about other displaced persons as well.

Speer, by 'Labor' I'm sure he means the Communists in Russia. When they came to the top they went 'haywire'.

	11-07-2003 21:26									#16
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Well, someone has to be the slave, right?

Hinx, minx the old witch winks,
The fat begins to fry.
Nobody home but Jumping Joan,
Father, Mother and I.

Stick, stocks, stone-dead,
Blind men can't see.
Every knave must have a slave,
You or I must be he.

Personally, I just figure whoever beats me up less is the lesser of two evils.

	11-07-2003 22:26									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes Very smart observation. I agree with GePap. It doesn't seem like Truman is anti-semetic, just that the Jewish problem with Palestine was brought up around that time and they were the 'underdog who went to the top'. It is true that they did not care about other displaced persons as well.

what do you mean by that? it's 47' you know.

	11-07-2003 22:31									#18
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Well they didn't care about the Estonians or Poles or Greeks... they were getting their own state, didn't care about displacing the Palestinians. They wanted special treatment and didn't give a damn about the other people who had been displaced.

	11-07-2003 23:05									#19
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somehow i suspect that if you looked at a list of Americans who were interested in the problems of displaced peoples, other than members of the groups in question, youd find quite a few Jews. Just as you find plenty of Jews among the white supporters of the civil rights movement. Im not taking issue with Truman - he was sharing some folksy wisdom with his diary, for gods sake. I would take issue with some here who overlook these historic facts. Power may corrupt, but, for whatever historical reasons, it does not corrupt everyone equally.

And certainly HST was talking about American Jews - not the situation in Palestine, as the context of the quote makes clear. Israel did not yet have statehood. And Poland and Greece of course did, and Jews in Israel and American were no less concerned about the Baltic States than most other Americans. Probably a tad more so.

And of course if HST thought that "Labor" was on top in USSR, he was quite naive.

	12-07-2003 03:58									#20
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quote: And Poland and Greece of course did

Not quite

	12-07-2003 04:01									#21
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark And certainly HST was talking about American Jews - not the situation in Palestine, as the context of the quote makes clear. Israel did not yet have statehood. And Poland and Greece of course did, and Jews in Israel and American were no less concerned about the Baltic States than most other Americans. Probably a tad more so.

What Jews in Israel? As you said, there was no Israel then?

quote: And of course if HST thought that "Labor" was on top in USSR, he was quite naive.

That is most certainly NOT where labor comes form: the immidiate aftermath of the war saw a lot of strikes, and the addition of management to the list shows that what he meant was labor relations inm the uS, and bickering between labor and Management.

	12-07-2003 04:02									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well they didn't care about the Estonians or Poles or Greeks... they were getting their own state, didn't care about displacing the Palestinians. They wanted special treatment and didn't give a damn about the other people who had been displaced.

What? Do you want the jews to care about how the Poles Greeks or Estonians felt? One could read your post and think that WW2 was some sort of Bonanza for the jews.

	12-07-2003 04:05									#23
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quote: What? Do you want the jews to care about how the Poles Greeks or Estonians felt?

Well that's why they are 'selfish' .

quote: One could read your post and think that WW2 was some sort of Bonanza for the jews.

IIRC, WW2 ended a few years before 1947 . And, post-WW2 WAS a bonanza for the Jews.

	12-07-2003 04:10									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel

Did you get a warning from Ming for that?

	12-07-2003 05:47									#25
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It's true but it's not necessarily a bad thing...we are all selfish by nature and our solidarity is limited, but at least the Jews try to extend that feeling to take care of their people/religion/culture as much as possible.

And in this case, it was understandable, in a time of great worry/excitement over their future fate.

Other groups should try to do the same (easier said than done, of course), for their own benefit IMHO.

It's a bit better than saying "sure we are all created equal and free, blah blah...but *I* don't really care about what happens to my neighbors....it's their own business".

So it's not like Truman was an anti-Semitic just for taking note of this and being somewhat bothered and amused by what he observed (again, I don't honestly see it as a bad thing, personally).

	12-07-2003 07:07									#26
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doesn't change my mixed opinion of him:

good: nuking japan (to finish the war, and (imho) karmic)
bad: allowing the soviets to overrun the territory above the 38th (because it looked like a good dividing line)
good: having the balls to stand up to the reds and helping half of the country not end up a stalinist hellhole

	12-07-2003 07:57									#27
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Truman was a war criminal. Nagasaki was, is, and forever will be inexcusable.

This doesn't change my view of him one bit.

	12-07-2003 08:09									#28
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Maybe he was more anti-Zionist than anti-Semetic. And only against the extremist Zionists, blowing up Brits and the like.

	12-07-2003 08:19									#29
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I'm not going to hold Truman in too much of a bad light because of this. The times were different... racial and ethnic slurs were common, so was hatred, but there's a difference between the likes of David Duke, Strom Thurmond, Hitler, and people like Truman.

	12-07-2003 08:55									#30
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Yeah! Darn those selfish Jews and their, uh, potato pancakes?