12-07-2003 15:02									#1
	The Spoils of War Enter the AD-FREE zone

As many have already pointed out, if GoW, ND and us attacked RP all at once it would be difficult to divide the spoils of war later.
We need to form a stand on what we believe that we deserve to get. I suggest that we brainstorm here, and later set up a joint chat with GoW and ND so that every team could bring up their proposal.

	12-07-2003 15:07									#2
	Support Apolyton

This will be interesting.
On one hand, we have the strongest army in the world, and we'll be bringing in a heck of a lot of units. On the other hand, GoW and ND might have less units, but they'll bring their powerful UUs along with them. So I'd say that each team could make an equal contribution to this campaign.
I suggest that we ask for the unsettled south, and settle it ourselves. We have worker pumps that can do the job quickly, and since it is the unsettled part and we're not getting already-built cities, we can ask for more land. We can also commit to leaving Bob as soon as the armies of GoW+ND+GS have conquered most of Lego Land (I know that this is still in the far future, but I reckon that we'll have to make such commitments in order for GoW and ND to appreciate having long-term relations with us, or else they might both attack us before we hit Lego); with the FP in Arashi, we can build the palace in Bob, and when we move to Lego we might even manage to jump it free of charge to Lego when we gift our cities on Bob and let the Bobians capture our capital on Bob.

	12-07-2003 15:12									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Flip the equation.

We aid Gow and ND to take RP. We keep cities. They look at us jealously.

Why are we bound to GoW and ND? There is another team out there. If we get lucky and can rush a palace on Bob...

One thing for certain. No two things...

1. We cannot stand aside and watch ND and Gow split Bob. Read ND. Look at the map, what can GoW get from the South that is useful? They are cut off from it by ND.

2. We must we welcomed onto Bob if we really want to be able to stick. Fighting off GoW and ND, even with Lego in the act vs them would not be easy.

	12-07-2003 20:34									#4
	Got spare money?

I agree on that we have to grab some chunk for ourselves. But I'll say we can stick around for a while even if we're not terribly wanted- we have a NAP with GoW, and ND won't attack us for a while I believe.
After the war we could probably keep GoW as friends, while ND could be "taken care of" or just left alone- after all, both of them have much more to lose from a war against us to take control of Bob than we do- fighting will be close to their cores, not ours...

	12-07-2003 22:06									#5
	Got spare money?

If they are unwilling to give us anything in the south, which we need to clear up asap (was there a three way chat tomorrow?), Then I think we should just sit back for the first several turns and hope the northern front bogs down. maybe they will be more willing to listen to us staying there then.


One early consequence to us in this war is that even if we stay out for a while, we will likely lose some luxuries from RP, we are getting silks from them, right? Their main silk town is Santiago, probably one of the 3 places to get hit first. Perhaps we could parlay our loss of luxuries due to this war into a diplomatic advantage?

Hoho, when they take the lux cities (santiago and cut the road to vigo or take it), our trade will be broken, and we won't have to give them that 1 or 2 turns notice we promised.


We need to ask ND and GoW how they match up to RP militarily, as we are strong against all three, we need more info.

	13-07-2003 00:02									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We'll be sitting and watching the fireworks for the first few turns no matter what- we need some 5-10 turns of preparations anyway, so I suppose we still have time to judge things before deciding our course of action.

	13-07-2003 01:27									#7
	Remove this text

Has anyone considered hitting ND instead?

	13-07-2003 02:00									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've been wracking my brain how we can 'save' RP and gain something worthwhile on BOB. We're just badly positioned to help RP or hit ND, and the NAP with GoW means we don't really have any good options.

Best we could do I think is to use our NAP with GoW to hinder their troop movements (with an ROP with RP), and actively fight ND's troops in RP's territory. Even then, I think we couldn't hold anything NW of the Mountains unless Lego joins in too, and has a decent sized fleet.

We'd basically be in a worse position to fight ND than if we hit RP and took the SE. We'd be working around RP's cities and territory, which would really mess up our troop movements/healing.

	13-07-2003 02:59									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

What if we just went on a razing tear through ND, and then wheeled on RP?

	13-07-2003 05:53									#10
	Remove this text

The problem is anything we do in ND wouldn't be a 'tear'... it would be slowly walking around on Mountains until our units are all dead (see Vox). We might raze an couple inconsequential towns, but I think that's about as much as we could do.

We wouldn't be able to have any Cat support, we'd have to telegraph our invasion, we wouldn't have anything to put our backs against and fight from, and reinforcements would be non-existant (in the W) or seriously delayed (in the E). It would get very ugly for us IMO, especially if GoW decided to use it's NAP to force us off Mountains.

The only way I could see it working is if Lego was in on it, and GoW wasn't going to interfere. Even then, RP, Lego, and GoW (if they were to join in) are in much better positions to claim territory than we are.

	13-07-2003 15:40									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I don't think we have to consider Lego as a possible ally for now. They still have some land to settle, and know they are a target, so they're going to keep a sizeable army on defense. Further, they can't come to Bob without moving into GoW sight, so others have the time to prepare for an invasion.

As to asking for the RP unsettled land: I would rather just attack RPs cities, and after the war try to swap cities with ND and GoW if a good deal can be made, so that the 3 have reasonably good territories. Asking for the unsettled land doesn't sound right: we have the settling ability, so after we get some cities, we can still settle it, and grow bigger.

DeepO