13-07-2003 00:41									#1
	Ship Capture Full PM-box? Change here!

I was always under the assumption that any unit with a zero defense was able to be captured, a la the arty units and the workers (I would test this, but won't have acess to my comp for another month and a half). So I had an idea...

Alot of transport type ships exist, ie Galleon and Transport plus a fuew other player created units. Why not give them a defense of zero and let them be captured. This would a) slow settlement since you can't just send an undefended galley on its way with a settler (there is a good ancient transport out at the moment, since the galley would stay the combat ship) b) would make it a REQUIREMENT that you escort transports adding a use for naval warfare, and b) lets you pirate effectivley with a privateer.

Problems:
Can you capture a ship, will the game allow for that?
What happens to embarked units?

	13-07-2003 09:15									#2
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Nothing should stop you from using the editor to make a ship able to be captured, assuming the tech was known. Planes as well, but the changes required would make the game much different than it is now.
Sending a settler in a galley now and the gally is sunk slows the settlement as effectively as a ship capture, does it not?
I doubt that your changes would force any new escorting. Players will send the galley when they think it is safe to do it and escort it otherwise. Just the way they do now.

	13-07-2003 09:50									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Planes as well, but the changes required would make the game much different than it is now.

Actually, Stealth Fighters and Stealth Bombers can be captured (which is probably unintentional), because they have A/D 0/0.

What I want to know is what happens to the embarked units. That could cause some serious bugs in the game.

	14-07-2003 01:04									#4
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There is a differance between sending a settle in a galley and a defenceless transport a) If you send it in a galley it is basically protected by the most advance naval warship of the time, so why escort it since the worst you will meet is a galley of the same caliber b) you not only lost your settler and galley, but you will also have given the enemy a free transport ship c) you can't send your transports undefended through "freindly" water if there is actually a reason to flood the seas with privateers.

	14-07-2003 01:14									#5
	Put an end to popups!

quote: - Ships with 0 attack and 0 defense will be captured by normal ships. - Ships with 0 attack and 0 defense will be captured if all their defenders are destroyed. - Like any other unit that can be captured, these ships are destroyed if the capturing Civ doesn't have the tech to use them. - If the captured ship is transporting units, all the transported units are destroyed (the ship itself is captured however)

An excerpt from a PM Spiffor sent me, describing the results of some tests he performed. I find it interesting that Firaxis thought ahead and programmed in the behavior of units of captured transports.

	14-07-2003 01:32									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"Like any other unit that can be captured, these ships are destroyed if the capturing Civ doesn't have the tech to use them."

i thought that was how some civilizations learned technology. for example the Mongol takeover of China...

	14-07-2003 01:39									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos There is a differance between sending a settle in a galley and a defenceless transport a) If you send it in a galley it is basically protected by the most advance naval warship of the time, so why escort it since the worst you will meet is a galley of the same caliber b) you not only lost your settler and galley, but you will also have given the enemy a free transport ship c) you can't send your transports undefended through "freindly" water if there is actually a reason to flood the seas with privateers.

Sorry I got lost on this one. Some information is not in this post that must be assumed from some previous post.
I mean a) one galley with a settler mets another and could get sunk. If two galleys met another galley both can not be sunk in one turn, so I can save my settler.
b) this is the part that must have some presumed data, as you can not capture a galley in open water.
c) players and AI send unescorted transports all the time.
Privateers will not catch up to transports. Yes you cold lose an unescorted ship of any carry type. It is often easy to see a safe route before subs.

	14-07-2003 01:48									#8
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 "Like any other unit that can be captured, these ships are destroyed if the capturing Civ doesn't have the tech to use them." i thought that was how some civilizations learned technology. for example the Mongol takeover of China...

Civ II had the possibility of "capturing" tech if one civ gave another civ military units that civ had no way of building. I forget how often it would occur.

	14-07-2003 02:36									#9
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It would always occur if you gave them a unit they didn't have the tech for.

	14-07-2003 06:14									#10
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hi ,

, this really is a great idea

maybe a special unit would do it , it would be sacrificed when the capture takes place , and the unit thats captured gets damages all the way to one little hitpoint , .....

have a nice day

	15-07-2003 02:24									#11
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I think it would just add a mission to naval units that would sort of mimick commerce or supply train raiding.

The best I can think of untill CtP type trade network is worked into civ, its biggest flaw in my opinion and why the navies of CivIII just have nothing to do.