13-07-2003 10:59									#1
	Selling sole source of resource Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I play on emperor level as Greeks usually and until I learn Military tradition will often trade all my sources of saltpetre for money and techs, I do this as I do not believe there is a lot of benefit in building musketeers and I can often do very good trades getting a lot of techs and sometimes money for the saltpetre.

I find I am attacked very rarely in my games also as they like to maintain the trades, so I get a good chance to build my civ with marketplaces and banks etc

Once I get cavalry I will not enter further trades unless it helps to maintain a beneficial military balance, but the trading prior to that usually has me in the top few as far as tech goes entering the 3rd era, which sets me up nicely for a potential spaceship win later and expansion through military conquest or settlers if ai's raze nearby cities. Also because I have peace early, can usually build enough culture items and get a few usual culture flips to expand my civ.

Sometimes I will also do this earlier with iron or horses also, less often later, but if I do, it would be a single 20 turn trade after which I will build more units, before considering further trades.

Most games there are 20 turn slots in the game available where there is not an urgent need for military units, and therefore trades can be made with all your resources to your benefit of tech or money

	13-07-2003 20:32									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here -- are you saying that you are able to sell off your sole unit of a given resource (which is impossible AFAIK), or are you asking if it's possible (which, as I commented, is not, IIRC)?

	13-07-2003 22:04									#3
	Got spare money?

I rarely sell saltpeter or any of the real military ones.
Maybe if I am in big need of something or very late when it does not matter or to a civ that is out of the picture.


Edit to remove another stupid statement.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 22-07-2003 at 05:10

	14-07-2003 00:25									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Actually, guys, you can sell your sole source of any resource, and it is often a very astute move. Your sole source will show up as "Iron (0 extra)" for instance, but you can click it and add it to the trading table. The AI will never (AFAIK) trade its sole source of a resource, but will happily take yours.

I rarely trade a sole source strategic resource. In most games, I tend to guard my civ's reputation until the late middle ages or so or until I have a general sense of how I want to finish the game (obviously doesn't necessarily apply if I go on an early conquest binge). One risk with trading a sole strategic (other than horses or rubber) is that it depletes during the trade and your rep is ruined.

Some players will trade a sole source precisely to deprive themselves access to the resource -- i.e., trade iron 20 or so turns before military tradition in order to build a huge force of horsies for upgrade to cavalry -- "instead of pillaging your road, why not trade for some benefit for it," is a line of thought.

I will occasionally trade a sole source luxury -- this is particularly helpful when you're one of the smaller civs (or at least not one of the largest, most developed civs). Because a luxury is more valuable to a larger, more well-developed civ, you can often trade for substantial extra goodies to the biggest civ when you are a small civ. For example, I might trade my sole supply of incense in exchange for a supply of gems and gold-per-turn. My civ's happiness remains the same (so long as I get a luxury back in the trade), I secure some extra goodies (and can do so every 20 turns), I have strengthened relations with another civ, and should the deal be broken, I immediately get my sole source luxury back (meaning I don't take a happiness hit). Since luxuries don't deplete, my rep is at issue only if I lose a trade network or the luxury itself.

Catt

	14-07-2003 01:26									#5
	Suffering from ads?

Interesting -- I had never thought of "clicking it anyway" to see what happens. I'll have to try that now. Thanks!

	14-07-2003 03:31									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Still learning new things. Now if I could stop forgetting them.
I was able to trade a resource that was zero extra in PTW, did not try an unpatch CivIII.
Thanks Catt.

	14-07-2003 17:27									#7
	This is often a must-do on Deity for me. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yes, you can definitely trade your last source of any luxury or resource, sometimes at a decent premium. I frequently do this to get some extra gpt as well. However, one must be careful not to build up the strongest civ using this method. It's a delicate balance. In a peaceful time, when I'm busy building libraries in my cities, I have no problem trading away my only Iron even. I figure I'm not going to use it much while I'm peacefully building so I might as well trade it to some distant warmonger to maintain AI balance

Here's a link to a thread discussing this principle:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=85437

Last edited by inca911 on 14-07-2003 at 17:34

	21-07-2003 20:18									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Building a horsemen/chariot and paying 80/100 gold
is cheaper than building knights. If I have the
opportunity, I trade away my iron for 20 turns.
I make all the upgrades I want to make and trade
the iron again away.
This works particularly well with the iroquis
(MW) and with egypt (WC), since you can do some
cleaning up with the MW's, while the knights do
the main job.

Bernard

	22-07-2003 03:01									#9
	A must-do for me too... Enter the AD-FREE zone

I also consider this strategy a must do, especially under Deity. But it works quite well under Emperor as well.

I often find myself not needing Saltpeter, but I've even done it with Iron. Playing the Greeks, I don't need to build Pikemen and when playing a builder strategy, I find I can get by with surprisingly few military units.

So, I trade my sole source of Iron to my immediate neighbor who uses it to attack one of my other neighbors. (he can't attack me because it would kill the trade).

I end up with two warring neighbors while I'm left in peace to build!

Eventually, I'll need the Iron for Factories. But until then, I find that I don't have to build anything more powerful than Hoplites and Longbows through the Middle Ages.

Once into the Industrial Ages, Greece often (always?) gets Nationalism as the freebie and Riflemen don't need any resources.

The same thing works with Rubber from its discovery all the way up to SS Exterior Casing. You just need a turn or two between deals to upgrade to Infantry then it's back to building.

- TT

	22-07-2003 05:18									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

ToeTruck are you talking about an OCC or any game?

I am starting to warm up to the idea.

	22-07-2003 08:00									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: ToeTruck are you talking about an OCC or any game?

I'm talking about any builder game. OCC (that's One City Challenge) is just an extreme. In OCC, though, selling your sole resource is more obvious. I'd never sell a luxury, but I often find myself sitting on an Iron that I won't use until Industrialization or a Rubber that I don't need until the Space Race heats up.

In non-OCC games, selling your sole resource still makes sense. I just finished an Emperor game as Russia in which I launched in 1776AD without ever being in a state of war. Total builder all the way.

I never got to sell my sole source of Iron or Rubber simply because I had too many, but I did sell my sole source of Saltpeter. For big cash, too.

I imagine you could sell a sole resource in a warmonger game, but that would be a tad bit tricky...to say the least.

quote: I am starting to warm up to the idea.

Glad to hear! OCC is a blast. Actually, any builder game under Emperor or Deity is quite the challenge. Try carving out a viable empire without declaring war sometime and you'll quickly see how easy warmongers have it.

- TT

	24-07-2003 04:27									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In the Modern Age, I'll sell any and all Horse and Saltpeter resources I can. It's not like I'm building Cav any longer, and the AI's often willing to pay some gpt for it.

	24-07-2003 06:34									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was not aware you could trade it away. This may come in useful.

	25-07-2003 18:12									#14
	Re: Selling sole source of resource Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by trev I play on emperor level as Greeks usually and until I learn Military tradition will often trade all my sources of saltpetre for money and techs, I do this as I do not believe there is a lot of benefit in building musketeers and I can often do very good trades getting a lot of techs and sometimes money for the saltpetre. I find I am attacked very rarely in my games also as they like to maintain the trades, so I get a good chance to build my civ with marketplaces and banks etc

Hm, this is worth thinking about trying. Upgrading to musketmen prior to trading would be wise maybe, if there is cash on hand.

	25-07-2003 18:15									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I was not aware you could trade it away. This may come in useful.

hi ,

, been thinking about the demogames , ......

why not try it in there and see what happens , ......


have a nice day

	27-07-2003 20:47									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I often do this - it saves pillaging the resource when you want to buld horseman for later upgrade to knights or cav.

Be aware, there is a slight danger the resource will run out. Rubber and horses don't run out AFAIK, but saltpetre and especially iron do.

This causes a trading reputation hit, because you broke a deal.

A small price to pay for most games - but it can cause a hiccup in a few games.

	29-07-2003 15:48									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

vmxa1, what are you warming to? Sole Resource Trading (SRT) is surely a builder's trick?

Don't say you're discovering the Light Side?

	29-07-2003 22:11									#18
	Put an end to popups!

Not yet, but I no longer will dismiss it.
Just that I could see an oppurtunity to trade that resource. The problem for me is that I will often not have anyone to trade it with. The AI is slow to build roads.

	05-08-2003 21:23									#19
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Not yet, but I no longer will dismiss it. Just that I could see an oppurtunity to trade that resource. The problem for me is that I will often not have anyone to trade it with. The AI is slow to build roads.

One of my top priorities early in the game is to build roads to other civs asap. This usually means going into their territory to build roads to connect me to them. I'll stop short of connecting their resources to their cities -unless- it will somehow allow them to trade me something I need. Sometimes they complain, but usually they will let me do this.

	06-08-2003 10:30									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

this gives me an idea. i will sell (or give even) my saltpeter so i can build pikemen instead of musketmen