13-07-2003 19:20									#31
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160 Euros for a simester for a free ride around an entire county sounds great. sadly this is not the state of things here.

	13-07-2003 19:21									#32
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at uchicago with the cta, one gets free buses from campus to downtown and around hyde park; 1.80 a trip gets you anywhere one-way in chicago.

	13-07-2003 19:29									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Actually, one of my college friends lives in Washington, DC and doesn't own a car and is quite content that way.

Is he unable to drive or is he making a statement?

	13-07-2003 19:31									#34
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He doesn't want to spend the money on a car, gas and parking. He uses the Metro and walks and gets around fine.

	13-07-2003 19:32									#35
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amen. i'm content at not having a car in chicago.

	13-07-2003 19:39									#36
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If we had a railnetwork, so would I.

but if the same bus is stuck in traffic, what's the point?

	13-07-2003 19:47									#37
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quote: If we had a railnetwork, so would I.

Well, our cities are too small and not dense enough for intra-city rail network. Maybe only in Tel Aviv and the suburbs.

	13-07-2003 19:54									#38
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Actually, a light rail has been on the paper for a while here. But of course, noone has the issue close enough for his heart to push it through the regional planning committees. The cities are rather small, but are dense, and could support such lanes.

Personally, I only mind about this because of the enviroment. That's why I opened this thread. Because we don't have the traffic problems of Tel Aviv. ( )

	13-07-2003 19:59									#39
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There's a first stage smog alert called for Los Angeles today. The AQMD is pointing its finger at high-pollution vehicles like SUVs.

	13-07-2003 20:09									#40
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For the love of gud I don't know why would anyone drive an SUV:
they're not safe.
They're expensive.
They're far from being the most bang for the buck.
they're polluting.
they're wasting lots of fuel.

If I had the money to by a cool car, I'd buy some sort of sports car instead.

	13-07-2003 20:12									#41
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Practical reasons for using public transportation?

Have you ever driven in downtown San Francisco!? It isn't a pretty sight. Public Transportation (BART / MUNI) is the way to go!

	13-07-2003 20:17									#42
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I agree with Snapcase - maybe I should take a trip over to that suicide thread...

Definitely more social - I owe £1 to some lass who gets the number 12 at the same time as I get it as she had a £10 note which the driver wouldn't give change to. I had a £5 note and four quid coins.

	13-07-2003 21:20									#43
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Public Transportation here is great. Except for the nasty accident we had a couple of days before, bus services are excellent. We also have an extensive subway system, a railway, a light rail, public mini buses, and free shuttle buses at places.

	13-07-2003 21:23									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel 160 Euros for a simester for a free ride around an entire county sounds great. sadly this is not the state of things here.

Yep, it is much cheaper than the normal prices for comparable tickets with a Validity of half a year.
I think if the Public Transportation Companies (especially the DB which is the largest Provider of Train Transporation in Germany) would make likewise offers publicly available, even if it would be somehow more expensive, like 250 or 300 €, it would be a big incentive for many people to make much more use of Trains and the like

	13-07-2003 21:37									#45
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Hey Az, what woud be the upfront out of pocket cost of getting a car? OIr di they give cars away in Israel as the did in Panama? (No oney down, not payments for the next year! Yeah, traffic neightmares!)

PT in DC was pretty Good, and the inner city si tiny enoguh that a good hour walk gets you places ( I walked from Georgetown to the LoC in under 1.5 hours).
And yes, in NY the PT is fantastic! Hey Boris, why 7 day ones? 4 *21 = $84 for 7*4=28 days, so why not just $70 for 30?

	13-07-2003 21:53									#46
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depends on the car. from a falling-appart washing machine on wheels costing around 1000 USD, to the 100k USD for the the expensive ones. mine costs around 4500USD. But it's a 3rd hand Subaru Legacy 91'.

Generally, cars here are expensive, as you see.

How much would a... new Mazda 6 2.0 engine cost in Panama, or in the US? Here it costs 32k USD.

	13-07-2003 21:56									#47
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quote: For the love of gud I don't know why would anyone drive an SUV: they're not safe. They're expensive. They're far from being the most bang for the buck. they're polluting. they're wasting lots of fuel.

MY CAR IS BIGGER THAN YOUR CAR! HA HA HA HA HA! NOW MY PENIS IS ALSO BIGGER THAN YOURS! HA HA HA HA!

The fact that they sell at the US markets is one of those things which makes me want to destroy the whole human race due to it's stupidity.

	13-07-2003 21:59									#48
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I have no clue. I don;t know the relative prices of cars in the US and Panama: my guess is that most inexpensive brands cost a little less in Panama, btut hat high quality cars cost more. The thing is, in Panama you see all types of cars, form everywhere, being sold. Only place I ever rode in a Samsung car.

	13-07-2003 22:14									#49
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The cost issue is very large, especially for those who are living week-to-week. Here's why.

(1) With public transportation, you can buy very small units of transportation to be used immediately. With a car, you have to purchase the car in advance of using it. You also have to prepay on routine maintenance like oil changes, tune ups, tires, etc. Even gasoline is prepaid. And insurance is prepaid monthly in some case, quarterly or yearly in others.

(2) The variability of costs for public transportation are extremely low. You can tell almost exactly how much you will have to pay tomorrow, next week, next month, and next year. With a car, you don't know whether the car will break down and you have to spend some or a lot of dough fixing it. Also,in countries with low gasoline taxes, the variability of costs is more than you might think.

	13-07-2003 22:21									#50
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For my home in suburban Maryland, I have a car here and drive it. There is a bus system here that I used to take before I had a car, but it's still not that good of a way of getting around and is completely unfeasible for any long-distance driving. I think for suburbs in order to get to where you want to go when you want to go there a car is pretty much nessecary. The only time I use publican transit is when I use the Metro System to get into DC, as driving into DC is a nightmare.

In Pittsburgh I do not have a car, primarily because Student Parking is VERY expensive, and driving isn't so nice there, and I'd also have to pay more in insurance. However I understand is cutting back on bus service, so next year I might just try to find an apartment with parking.

	13-07-2003 22:21									#51
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Yes, but your freedom of operation dramatically increases.

	13-07-2003 23:28									#52
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to save money

is that not practical enough?

True, it is cheaper in gas for me to drive to work. But when you factor in the cost of the vehicle, maintenance, and insurance it is more expensive for me to drive to work.

	13-07-2003 23:30									#53
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If more LAers used mass transit there wouldent be so much traffic and smog. It isn't as bad in Minneapolis, but it still sucks. America has too much of a car-driving culture, a fancy car is a sign of status.

	13-07-2003 23:36									#54
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I forgot to mention a few things.

It would be more expensive for me to own a vehicle and use public tranportation at the same time. That's a waste of money. You only save money if you don't own a vehicle whatsoever.

The main reason I own a vehicle is freedom of travel. You can't get to the mountains outside my city by bus. Personal vehicle is the only way to get up there. And I have a 4 X 4 with good ground clearance, so I can take any of the dirt roads and really get places. Until buses can do that, I will always have a vehicle.

	13-07-2003 23:52									#55
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It depends on where you are, frankly.

Relying on public transportation in Atlanta, frankly, is not very smart . You need a car to go just about everywhere. Even if you are going to take the trains, you'll need to drive to the station, because taking the bus will add a whole lot of time to your trip.

	14-07-2003 00:07									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Odin If more LAers used mass transit there wouldent be so much traffic and smog. It isn't as bad in Minneapolis, but it still sucks. America has too much of a car-driving culture, a fancy car is a sign of status.

There is nothing wrong with this. The wrongness is the fact that they pollute.

	14-07-2003 00:31									#57
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No, the wrongness lies in the fact that they're wasteful, they're conductive to bad city environments, they make my life as a pedestrian a hassle, they're ugly, they're smelly, they're noisy and they're horrible. Boo cars.

	14-07-2003 00:34									#58
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Car rock, loser !

Go Cars!

	14-07-2003 00:37									#59
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Yes, buck, cars as a concept, are really good. They need to be improved, tho.

	14-07-2003 01:11									#60
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I go 100% PT when I'm in DC, although the distance to most places that i need to go is walkable (40 minutes one way can get me to upper Adams Morgan). Now that I'm home, I use a car 100% of the time. When I go to NYC, I always park at Poughkipsie and take the Metro North in. It saves on money, time and aggravation.