13-07-2003 16:09									#1
	Any practical reasons to use public transport instead of a car? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Do you use public transport a lot, and if you do, is it because it's more economic than a car, or is it because you can't afford the purchase of a car right now?

I used to take the bus all of my life, since in School, there is no special busses that take kids to school. The city chips in for a part of a ride, but only if you live relatively far away. But we didn't have a car, so it didn't matter.

Now, my parents have bought a car, an old one. They don't use it much, so it would be money wasted on insurance, so I take it, by paying the gas bills.

What I have noticed:

My daily ride for the university is around 10 kms. For this car, it's about a liter of fuel, and considering that sometimes there is traffic, it's a bit more than a liter. A liter of gasoline costs 4.35 NIS. that means that the cost of such a ride is around 4.60 NIS. A ride on the public bus costs 5.20 NIS! even if you buy the "ride all month free" ticket, that costs some 250 NIS. since I go to the uni some, say 22 times a month, that makes 44 rides. that still leaves us with a the same bill per ride as ,250/44~4.68. Even if say that I ride a couple of more times say 60 rides (which I don't!) it makes a ride cost 4.16. At weekend nights, you can't take the bus. And a taxi costs a shitload: A similar ride that would cost around 9 shekels on a car would costs some 40 Shekels!

Now, we have to consider the costs of licensing and insurance:
a yearly cost of registration and ensurance would cost around 4000, that is 330 NIS per month (young driver. ). So, monthly, a car costs around: 700 NIS (including trips to neighbouring cities, which would cost a fortune on a friday night). while Bus+taxi fares would cost me some 450 NIS.

250 NIS a month: for that, I get half an hour a day of saved time, since I take the highway while the bus goes through the city, and obviously, complete freedom of movement. Plus, I can go with friends to the country on weekends, and they'll chip in for the ride.

So, please remind me, which should I take the bus?

	13-07-2003 16:13									#2
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You should also add the factor that Haifan busses have a tendency to blow up once every couple months.

	13-07-2003 16:13									#3
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Mass Transit is comparitively environmentally friendly, just like Civ2 told us.

	13-07-2003 16:15									#4
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quote: You should also add the factor that Haifan busses have a tendency to blow up once every couple months.

If you'll remember the traffic accident stats, I am better off in a bus.

FP: not if the busses are diezel-fuel-munching monsters.

	13-07-2003 16:17									#5
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Once you've bought a car, the marginal costs are cheaper for car travel.

However, before you buy the car you need to work out what additional advantages you get from it (ie, door-to-door, image, pulling chicks) as it is undoubtedly more expensive in the long run.

If you ask me, we need to subsidise the cost of cars and recoup the cost by making individual journeys more expensive through higher tax on petrol.

That way the marginal cost of most journeys could be cheaper by public transport, and hence more people would use it.

	13-07-2003 16:20									#6
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Public Transport is a good idea, but the busses in Israel are very uncomfortable from the reasons you mentioned.
But that's because there is a monopoly on the bus system. Egged in most of the country and Dan in Gush Dan.
Half a year ago a private company took over the inter city routes here in Ashdod. The prices today are 60% cheaper.
In Tel Aviv, a private company took over some of the lines and Dan is already reducing prices.

So hopefully the monopolies will break and bus transport will get cheaper and better.

As a sidenote, trains are absolutely great. Netanyahu got my vote with his train expansion plan.

	13-07-2003 16:23									#7
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Dont drink and Drive.
Also You can read while being on PT (okay I can)
Last but not Least mhh I forgot my last Point.

	13-07-2003 16:23									#8
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There are problems with the several bus companies tho. You can't have a "Hofshi Hodshi" card for all of them.

	13-07-2003 16:25									#9
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Azazel,

There do not seem to be other cost factors involved in your use of the car to uni.

Over here, however, we have to deal with parking fees as well, making the car potentially costly to use.

I usually take the bike myself.

	13-07-2003 16:33									#10
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O, and I take PT (usually train or subway) when it's convenient, i.e. when the subway stops very near my destination.

	13-07-2003 16:37									#11
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Bus is £33 ($55) for a month ticket here and gets me to work and back every day

	13-07-2003 16:57									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni Azazel, There do not seem to be other cost factors involved in your use of the car to uni. Over here, however, we have to deal with parking fees as well, making the car potentially costly to use. I usually take the bike myself.

A worthy notice. However I don't need to pay parking fees near my uni. In the city, they can cost some.

	13-07-2003 17:53									#13
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I drive, people die. It's safer for all for me to use a bus.

	13-07-2003 17:54									#14
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one practical reason is that you won't have to look for a parking spot.. however bus stops are often a bit away from where you want, sometimes a long way from.. which is why I haven't used a bus or other public transport system since I got my driver's license (except when the car was stolen or otherwise indisposable)

	13-07-2003 18:04									#15
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cheaper

but than, I rarely need to use mass transit (usually ride a bike or walk)

Jon Miller

	13-07-2003 18:04									#16
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Well for one thing, here at least, bus tickets are printed on ordinary paper. They are, therefore, extraordinarily easy to forge - free travel.

Also the whole not-having-a-car-or-a-license is a convincing argument in my book.

	13-07-2003 18:34									#17
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Not applicable, since they print them in a machine near the driver after you paid here, and the monthly tickets are printed on two sides on a thin cardboard.

	13-07-2003 18:42									#18
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It was my brother that figured it out. Not only do they have the obvious things ( like the date, route number and time bought etc ) but they have simple codes that the bus driver can recognise after a while if he's unsure if a ticket is valid. Generally the same stuff but put into alphanumeric strings. Once you look at enough tickets it becomes easy but otherwise they'd catch you with minimal effort.

As far as I can tell the reason our buses use paper tickets is just to conserve space. They're on a drum connected to a basic printer - exactly like a till reciept.

	13-07-2003 18:47									#19
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i love pt. honestly, even though i know how to drive, i don't much like doing it. i realize it's more convenient, possibly cheaper, faster, and it's easier at times, but i don't like having to focus that much attention to moving around a metal death buggy.

i like mass transit simply because it affords me time to do other things while getting from place to place, doesn't make me as angry at incompetent ninny drivers, allows me to people watch, and gives me a bit of exercise because i get to walk places, which is fun.

	13-07-2003 18:48									#20
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besides, in the two of the three that i've use most often, they have smart cards you can wave over a reader, which eliminates paper waste and lets you breeze through. (seoul and chicago.)

	13-07-2003 18:52									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed ....allows me to people watch....

People watch? Feh! A likely story. We all know why you really use it is you like to prod all the poor homeless drunks who ride around in the subway cars, startling them awake into a disgustingly sober state of shock and cackling gleefully as you watch them try to deal with reality.

I think it's reprehensible. You should b ashamed of yourself.

	13-07-2003 18:56									#22
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With mass transit, you get more excercise, you get to be social, you don't pollute as much, and you get to see more of the world outside.

	13-07-2003 19:03									#23
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@faboba.

sorry, i didn't know that was you...

	13-07-2003 19:05									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed With mass transit, you get more excercise,

No.

quote: you get to be social,

No.

quote: you don't pollute as much,

Somewhat

quote: and you get to see more of the world outside.

No.

	13-07-2003 19:05									#25
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if mass transit didnt exist, I wouldnt have been able to come home last night.

SPeaking of which, I need to go pickup my car... if I can remember where I parked it.

	13-07-2003 19:11									#26
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It would be utterly impractical for me to have a car in NYC. PT is awesome here, and the cost is much cheaper than having a car.

I spend $21 a week on an unlimited subway/bus pass. So that's $1092 a year. Now, in addition to cost of a car, gas and esp. parking would probably cost me upwards of $3000 a year.

Besides, driving in NYC is a pain in the ass. I can just walk where I need to go, usually. I have a 25 minute walk to my office.

	13-07-2003 19:13									#27
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New York is special.

	13-07-2003 19:14									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel New York is special.

We rawk!

Actually, one of my college friends lives in Washington, DC and doesn't own a car and is quite content that way.

	13-07-2003 19:15									#29
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I like to use Mass Transit.
Every Semester we have to pay around 160 € at the University and can use buses, trains and buses in a large part of NRW (Northrhine Westphalia).
As you have to pay those 160 € regardless of wether you use Public Transportation or not, it would be uneconomic to pay Insurances, taxes and the like for a car.
And after all it is much better, to be able to sit in a train and underground and being able to learn or read something during the ride, instead of having to pay attention to the traffic during the whole ride to university and wasting a lot of time searching for a free parking lot, if you use a car.
And, btw. if you are going out it is always better to use a train, as everyone will be able to consume alcohol (and as in Ruhr Valley most of the larger discotheques can be reached throughout the night at least once per hour by train, there is no problem in getting there and back home again).
And of course, as it was already mentioned, it is also better for the environment.

	13-07-2003 19:19									#30
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azazel: more exercise, yes. in chicago, not all the stations are in walking distance. not all the buses take you where you want to go. you walk more than if you had a car, which can and often does take you exactly from point a to point be, rather than mass transit, which takes you from a point near a to a point near b.

social, yes. you get to talk to other people, even strangers (although one shouldn't), and your friends without having to worry about the road, other drivers, and traffic; and if you have more friends with you than would fit in a car, you'd be able to talk to all of them, rather than just the ones in the car.



driving in any big non-sunbelt city is a pain in the ass. chicago's the same way, at least in the city.