14-07-2003 01:49									#1
	Hong Kong: Is Democracy taking hold in China? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Going back to when China took over control of HK, I thought that this would mean a Maoist takeover of the previously Democratic British holding. But it seems as if China has allowed HK to continue to self-govern. Recently, China has tried to pass anti-Democratic reforms aimed at curbing free-speech and free-expression, as well as the right to protest. But mass protests have erupted in Hong Kong, and today, I'm hearing reports that China is giving in to the protestors and will not disrupt the Democratic process. The info I'm getting is suggesting that Democratic reforms are going to spread through China as many mainland Chinese see the HK situation as an opprotunity to promote freedom and representative Democracy.

I don't know much about East-Asian politics. But is Democracy starting to take hold? If so, it would be a wonderful thing. I'll celebrate the day China is allowed to enjoy the benefits of Democracy, Freedom, and a market economy.

Free China!

	14-07-2003 01:51									#2
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They have McDonalds. They have a purpose.

	14-07-2003 02:01									#3
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If I'm not mistaken, part of the agreement to hand the colony back to the Chinese was that they wouldn't monkey with it for 50 years. I don't remember if that was with it's economy or government, but I believe it was the government. That is why Beijing hasn't really f*ckered-up Hong Kong...

...yet.

Hong Kong is a potential cash cow for China and a model upon which they are trying to duplicate elsewhere in the mainland. It's doubtful they'd do anything that would truly upset Hong Kong's economy.



EDIT: "...economy of government..." Anyone have a PhD in that?

Last edited by DRoseDARs on 14-07-2003 at 02:09

	14-07-2003 02:02									#4
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I reckon we should give Wales to China and see what happens

	14-07-2003 02:02									#5
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UR in 10 ... 9 ... 8 ...
Irrelevent comparisons to the US will commence shortly after he arrives

	14-07-2003 02:05									#6
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I'd add to that, except it pretty much describes everythign

	14-07-2003 02:05									#7
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In a word: No.

In more words: No way.

	14-07-2003 02:08									#8
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quote: In a word: No. In more words: No way.

why? explain

	14-07-2003 02:28									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Sava why? explain

Because, democracy is Hong Kong is only because of the agreement between the Chinese and the british for 50 years.

The rest of the country is still under quite a bit of opression, and there is no sign of that breaking especially under Hu (Hu? Hu!) Jintao.

	14-07-2003 02:33									#10
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quote: The rest of the country is still under quite a bit of opression, and there is no sign of that breaking especially under Hu (Hu? Hu!) Jintao.

do you think the Democracy in Hong Kong will spread? I mean, it's fairly obvious that Hong Kong has a strong economy... won't people on the mainland take notice and demand reform?

	14-07-2003 02:38									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Sava do you think the Democracy in Hong Kong will spread? I mean, it's fairly obvious that Hong Kong has a strong economy... won't people on the mainland take notice and demand reform?

	14-07-2003 02:47									#12
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I just realized that you were tassadar... you changed your avatar

	14-07-2003 04:17									#13
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Good point Tass, but in America, dissent used to be treated much the same way... Kent State? I doubt China could use violence to crush pro-Democracy movements. Especially since more and more people support such reforms.

	14-07-2003 04:25									#14
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We all seem to be very happy about pro-reform protests in China but pro-reform protests in Iran seem to make a whole lot of people want to bomb Tehran.

Weird.

	14-07-2003 04:26									#15
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quote: We all seem to be very happy about pro-reform protests in China but pro-reform protests in Iran seem to make a whole lot of people want to bomb Tehran.

Does hypocrisy in America surprise you?

	14-07-2003 05:56									#16
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quote: Is democracy taking hold in China?

No, not in any meaningful way any way.

	14-07-2003 05:58									#17
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Nevermind I won't jump to the bait.

	14-07-2003 06:08									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Good point Tass, but in America, dissent used to be treated much the same way... Kent State? I doubt China could use violence to crush pro-Democracy movements. Especially since more and more people support such reforms.

Sava, you can't compare the two because of the control exercised by the respective governments after the events. People in the US were free to raise hell about Kent State and demand change from elected representatives. The Chinese people were subject to arrest or detainment and even summary execution if they voiced any support for Tiannemen Square protests.

Within its own boarders China could give a $hit about what the rest of the world thinks. They will do what is necessary to maintain power and act insulted if the world questions their "internal" actions. Hong Kong has a temporary special status and may make things more difficult for them, but they will be patient. 4 years after the turnover and they are trying to pass anti-democratic reform. Okay, didn't work this time, but I'll guarantee you that little by little the freedom that Hong Kong enjoys will slowly fade away. The rest of China will be forcibly kept in line if a legitimate threat appears.

	14-07-2003 06:37									#19
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Sava, do you really hate America this much?

	14-07-2003 06:46									#20
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Fez Sighting +1.

How was your permanent self-imposed vacation from Poly Fez?

	14-07-2003 06:51									#21
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I am on vacation in Hawaii... And that means I am gonna be posting minimally at best. BTW, my plans changed significantly. I am not going to Italy til winter.

Anyways I see most of the usual nuts here have went from attacking Bush to attacking democracy. What arrogance.

	14-07-2003 06:53									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Sava, do you really hate America this much?

"I hate this place! I'm leaving!"
"This place sux. I'm leaving."
You all hate me. I'm leaving."
"Everyone in the world hates me. I'm leaving."

quote: But I see most of the usual nuts here

quote: What arrogance.

Fezzie only makes 2 posts, and I can already trip him up

	14-07-2003 06:55									#23
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You are a dumb @$$, tass.

	14-07-2003 06:55									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Fez You are a dumb @$$, tass.

Interesting. I'm the one pointing out YOUR fallacies, Fez

	14-07-2003 06:58									#25
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What fallacy you damned idiot?

The fact that your arrogant existence is a fallacy?

	14-07-2003 07:03									#26
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Fez

	14-07-2003 07:04									#27
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Oh here comes kiddo... the little "know-it-all" who calls himself a communist... communism itself is a fallacy.

	14-07-2003 07:08									#28
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Did you buy that helicopter in the end?

	14-07-2003 07:09									#29
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Shut up, commie trash.

	14-07-2003 07:16									#30
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What does that mean in your sig about leadership in the US?