14-07-2003 08:21									#1
	Turn 127, 30BC Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Coincidentally, a bunch of Vox cities are in our lap and GoW has reported as the turn they declare war on RP.

Recommend, move all forces in the South a full turn towards the North. We have seen false reports of conflict elsewhere before. GoW does not have a sterling record with us re agreements. Let's be on the safe side, call it maneuvers.

	14-07-2003 09:25									#2
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Sounds like a plan. We can afford to take this precaution to prevent GoW from gaining a stronghold on our continent.

Keep an eye on that cape seperating us from Bob...

	14-07-2003 09:27									#3
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We should also trail the RP galley, right, in case we want to sink it soon. It might have stowaways.

I think most of the forces are already in Elipolis, but we should move some to the new cities

	14-07-2003 14:25									#4
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Definitely get forces into the north to stop GoW (or anyone else) swiping a few of the Vox cities. It doesn't slow us down much and possibly saves us a big loss.

	16-07-2003 18:48									#5
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According to Vondrack, we now have the save. Do we have lots of nice, juicy Vox cities in our pocketsses?

	16-07-2003 20:19									#6
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We now have Engineering and all of Vox's Stormian cities except The Voice. I assume we're supposed to take The Voice. Then what?

Forces of the Storm:

1 Settler
21 Workers
8 Horsemen
24 Pikemen (1 elite)
14 Catapults
10 Galleys
13 War Chariots (3 elite, no leader; one elite+leader)
19 Medieval Infantry (about four of them regular)

We need to make a decision on which of those forces we want in North Stormia, which we want to use in our invasion (and in what order), and which we want to keep other places at home.

Our current deployments in the north:

2 vet WCs roaming around former/current Voxian lands

Elipolis:
2 Elite WCs
3 Catapults
5 Vet MedInfs
4 Vet Pikes

Inchon:
8 Vet Pikes
4 MedInfs (3 Vet, 1 Regular)
4 Vet WCs
4 Cats

We also have two pikes garrisoning the Inchoff area; presumably, we want to move those elsewhere since reaching Inchoff would not be particularly practical and the city isn't of particularly great value now that Vox is leaving.

Last edited by nbarclay on 16-07-2003 at 20:50

	16-07-2003 20:39									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: 2 regular WCs

We built regular WCs? I knew we had one once, but it was killed. We built more?

I'd start upgrading the vet horsemen bit by bit.
I'd pull all elite forces south to load onto galleys at some point (except the elite* WC... he can hang out for a while, perhaps getting upgraded soon).
I'd leave the regular and vet WC's up north for a while. They are the most expensive upgrades (the 8 horsemen will cost us 80 each, and that will take a little while).

Our invasion force should be mostly pikes & med infs, with a couple of knights and cats (plus a settler).

I think we should prioritize roadbuilding on all coastal tiles, particularly the ones up in the former Voxian lands. That way, our units (WCs come to mind) can patrol there and block any attempted landings.

Nathan - what is our research situation? Have we started on Banking, or are we at max tax? We're going to need a lot of money to a) upgrade horsies to knights; and b) pay for temples/walls/barracks in our Bobian cities, plus 1 harbor in our planned replacement for Barcelona.

8 horsies X 80 gold = 640 gold
10 WCs (non-elite no leader) X 100 gold = 1000 gold

I don't see those WCs getting upgraded for some time. Looks like the horsies only for the near future.

Temples (after 1 turn wait) = 116 gold each.
Barracks = 156
Walls = 76
Harbor = 316

Temples X 4 = 464 gold
Barracks X 4 = 624 gold
Walls X 4 = 304 gold
Harbor X 1 = 316 gold

1708 gold, plus 640 for horseman upgrades = 2,348 gold.

Um, wow. We might be able to skimp a bit (one of those cities can probably do without a barracks, perhaps the harbor can wait a little bit...), but that's a big price tag.

-Arrian

	16-07-2003 20:43									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Nathan - can you email or post a screenshot of the whole continent please? All the ones I have are missing the top few tiles of (ex)Vox, and I want to see what the situation is like up there re roads.

	16-07-2003 20:58									#9
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I just sent out a screenshot of North Stormia. That should give you what you need to fill in the missing pieces. (I figured sending just that part of the map zoomed in would be more useful for seeing the tile improvement situation than sending the whole continent zoomed out.)

The reference to "regular" WCs was a misprint. I sometimes have trouble with thinking of veterens as "regular" in the sence of not having been promoted yet. I usually catch myself, but...

	16-07-2003 21:03									#10
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As far as I can see, a garrison at Miller Town 2 would have the potential to move into any town in the north in one turn, and could block any landing site south of Wittlich City (and north of Elipolis). Fast movers there should be able to reach any landing sites further north. But bear in mind that a single galley can unload in one of nine different tiles on a straight coast, and more on a concave one (e.g. A galley 777 from D'ville has 15 tiles that it could drop troops on in principle, ignoring towns) So we need to commit a fair number of troops to block all landing sites, and need to have all coastal tiles roaded (fx: taps foot waiting for email to arrive with map).

8 pikes at MT2, 6 MI and MT8 and 6 WC in MT itself should provide enough blocking power to secure the north. Possibly that is overkill, but I'm allowing for us messing up and allowing a landing force to hit the beach, when we have enough firepower to do a fair amount of damage to them - at least enough to stop them taking a town with 8 pikes in it before we can get reinforcements there. Then again, if 10 riders is the size of army that Bobians think is sufficient for a land attack...

For the south, we have more warning of course, at least until astronomy.

If we are committing of the order of 10 pikes to RP, we are going to need more units available when astronomy rolls around in order to protect the south as well as the north. We can concentrate more fast units in the south (WCs that are waiting for us to get enough cash to upgrade). If we are taking mostly MI to Bob, then we have close to 15 fast units available for landing site blocking duty, and they can be dumped in D'ville at the moment, allowing them to reach anywhere from 1 tile south of Elipolis to 1 tile north of Whirlwind. We get advance warning of any attacks further south than that at the moment, so we can react as appropriate should we need to.

	16-07-2003 21:04									#11
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Ok, I kinda figured it was something like that.

Anyway, I think the vet WCs, the elite* WC and the regular med infs should be the forces we keep home to block landings (plus some pikes, of course).

The vet med infs, a bunch of our pikes, the 3 elite WCs, the horsies (upgraded to knights), and most (or all) of our cats should go over to Bob.

Vulture, I do think your proposal is a bit of overkill... but I understand the caution. I think an additional galley or two might work wonders, though, so we can block/sink incoming enemy galleys.

-Arrian

	16-07-2003 21:05									#12
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Research situation: I've been holding off starting research on the theory that (1) we hadn't chosen our course of action yet and (2) we could research more efficiently once Hurricane finished its library (which it just has). With the Hurricane library and our FP in Arashi now complete, at our current rate, Banking would take eight turns at a small (~+15) surplus or seven at a small (~-10) deficit. We have 616 gold, but 60 of that is committed to go to Vox.

	16-07-2003 21:10									#13
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What is the impact of the FP? Are things a bit better in the north? (I know this was a temporary move)

	16-07-2003 21:10									#14
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So 556 gold available for use. Can you upgrade some horsies this turn, then, Nathan?

What do you think about my projection that we need ~2000 gold for the basics of this invasion?

-Arrian

	16-07-2003 21:19									#15
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By the way, the library in Hurricane puts us at first in Literacy. We don't have a huge number of libraries, but we do have them in three of our four biggest cities.

Last edited by nbarclay on 16-07-2003 at 21:31

	16-07-2003 21:30									#16
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So we have the largest population (by some margin I think) and the highest literacy. Not to mention the highest GNP. I guess we are the sleeping research monster...

	16-07-2003 22:10									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Maybe it's best to take the Voice, and gift Miller town back as part of a peace deal now, so we can see more clearly what the effect of war weariness is. Also, was it already decided where we want to move Voxian towns?

As to research: we should end in some 10 turns, so we can have another 3 or 4 turns of 100% tax... it doesn't matter really when we do this, as no further libraries are planned for the moment, but I guess the money can come in handy.

With permission, I'd like to tell the Legos this fastest eta: 7 turns at the minimum, but we'd rather have 11-13 turns at least. I don't think they will mind, as there won't be anybody wanting to buy techs for quite some time.

One consequence is that 2000 gold won't be possible to get as our money pot for the invasion, we need to start cutting into that budget... 1000 - 1200 yes, but 2000? That's a lot of gold

upgrading horsies: good idea, certainly as it wil be masked in the power graph by the Voxian cities we gain. But keep some money handy, we'd want some inspections later on too.

DeepO

	16-07-2003 22:11									#18
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BTW, how many settlers can you spot for Vox? I wonder if that galley of theirs is also holding some units...

DeepO

	16-07-2003 22:27									#19
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include 1 elite WC into the first or second wave, you never know we get lucky again. Further, is it possible to have 2 settlers ready for the first wave? If so, it could help us greatly: they can settle both NM7 and NM33, give us an instant unload city for our future waves. If I count tiles, it won't matter for the second wave, so we could in principle also put that second settler on our second wave, if we unload him right.

If we do have a few galleys close by to unload a smaller second wave the turn after invasion, it could matter, though, otherwise we have to wait 3 turns before the rest of our troops arrive.

DeepO

	16-07-2003 22:38									#20
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Are there any restrictions on the vox given engineering?

Arnelos has complained of crossing rivers. We could give them engineering for that luxury, which would speed units to the defense much faster. Granted it will speed towards defense of barci too, but if we wait a few turns, perhaps everything south of the border will be opened. Plus, they would be less likely to expect an attack from us then, if we basiclly just gave away a good tech.

	16-07-2003 22:44									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The rivers of RP are kind of strange... I would not give them Engineering! If they want to trade us a city for it, fine, otherwise why would we give them something for free. We might look out, and see once Vox or Lego gives them Engineering.

As to their rivers: the strange thing is that for all UUs, those aren't defensive at all. These can land next to e.g. Zaragoza, be relatively safe from direct attacks (not cat fire), and once they attack they have enough movement points to cross the river, attack the city, and if possible return to over the river in one turn. I would not have placed my cities there if I knew riders were coming.

BTW, we don't need the lux, I think, if we can take it in under 10 turns, and keep it the rest of our game

DeepO

	16-07-2003 22:53									#22
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dp

	17-07-2003 06:35									#23
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quote: 1. Vox 126. Vox gifts all cities on Stormia (Estonia) to GS, save the Voice, as well as Engineering. Accepted. All cities include Wittlich City, Miller Town, Beta-by-the-Sea, and Harry's Hideout. 2. GS 127. GS accepts cities and tech. Declares war, occupies The Voice. GS offers peace, Miller Town and any gold captured from the Voice back, accepted. 3. Vox 127. Vox accepts peace and Miller Town. Moves all forces into Miller Town. Offers Miller Town, unnaccepted. 4. GS 128. GS offers 60 gold and accepts. 5. Vox 128. Vox accepts 60 gold for Miller Town and all forces *blip* to their new capital. The peace is final. Ratified by Gathering Storm Ratified by Vox Controli

So we take The Voice, then offer Vox peace and Miller Town accepted.

	17-07-2003 06:49									#24
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I agree with Arrian, keep the Vet WC's up north to block landing sites. We want to keep a garrison in Elipolis just in case, probably 3-4 Pikes and a couple of the Vet WC's. Then we can rely on upgrading the WC's to Knights to repel a landing if they somehow find a spot to land.

An initial 'crossing guard' proposal:



At first we need 7 units to block all the first turn landing sites. Workers do just as well as any unit, and we need to improve some of the tiles anyways. Eventually we can have 2 of those spots as city sites. The Mountain would be a good location for a lookout tower, and then we could move the North Galley further W, or stack it with the S Galley.

One turn warning will give us enough time to at least upgrade a couple WC's to Knights as long as we have the money. The lookout Galleys can also be used to try to sink ships in a pinch.

	17-07-2003 10:31									#25
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I pulled back two more MedInfs from the northern front. Even with them leaving now, it's going to be four or five turns before they can load up on galleys, but I'm hesitant to pull out any more than that with Voxian troops still around. I also went ahead and upgraded three horsemen to knights.

Right now, Inchoff is scheduled to complete a temple in two turns and Blizzard in three. If we're planning to use one of the two settlers we'll have in the next couple turns to fill in the gap in between our northern cities, we probably want to change those builds to something else, although having additional temples for the culture wouldn't be the worst thing in the world no matter what. If we're planning to commit the settlers to the invasion and/or to going ahead and replacing Dissidentville, we probably want the temples to finish so the cities can get more production.

	17-07-2003 10:33									#26
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Nathan, you have the DoW, occupy the Voice. offer peace, Miller Town and the gold pillaged from the Voice done?

	17-07-2003 11:17									#27
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Turn and shots sent.

Edit:
Yes. Peace, Miller Town and 10 gold to Vox. (I had to take The Voice without declaring war first because our previous peace treaty hadn't expired, but that shouldn't matter.)

	17-07-2003 11:26									#28
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Now the AI wont trade upfront for gpt with us us!

Suprised that our power graph didn't move much at all. Guess it will kick in next turn?

How many shields is Arashi at BTW? If it's 18-19, I think we should build 4 turn Knights there. At 20, Med Inf would be good too.

----------

Edit: Actually, can I be put on the Save email list now too? Will cut down on all my questions I keep asking I promise!

	17-07-2003 11:28									#29
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Power would come next turn. This turn we did not start with those cities.

	17-07-2003 11:48									#30
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Arashi is at 16 net if I remember right, which is why I have it on pikes. We could get more out of it at Tempest's expense if we want to; right now I have things prioritized in Tempest's favor aiming for a wonder prebuild, but we may want to reconsider that now that we're presumably going to war. We may also want to consider switching some harbor builds in southern cities to knights and putting the cities on war production.