14-07-2003 15:42									#1
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Post your orders here by editing them into my first post

Camulodunum_____Unorthodox
Worker either this turn or next. Start the road to Zenophobia.
Build Harbor

Zenophobia_______MasterZen

Trafalgar_________Panzer32

Tatung___________Hot_Enamel
Pop Growth.... 2,8

Anyang___________Hot_Enamel
Nothing

The Hill___________Hot_Enamel
Nothing

Camp Cod________Panzer32

Imperial City______Panzer32

Camp Concord_____Panzer32

Macao____________Donegeal

Drednoughtica_____Donegeal

Skulgaria__________Aggie

Shantung__________Aggie

Port Isolation_______Aggie

______________________________

Workers
Tat worker to move 9,9 (And then begin a mine on 10bc)

______________________________

military
______________________________

Foreign Affairs

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 14-07-2003 at 17:59

	15-07-2003 20:33									#2
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Must...Kill....enemies....


AAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Pass the save already Togas!

	16-07-2003 15:48									#3
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Out all everything that was posted on the main forum, this interested me the most.



I wish I knew if this was a true pic from the game, or from a simulation, because it presents a very important fact. We must consider if it is a fake picture (ie they may not have any stack their at all !)

But if it is true .....

They have pillaged their road under their stack of Pikes.
I see no reason for them doing this, other than
1. they had not got around to roading it yet (unlikely)
2. They expect to lose the city, and dont want us to have use of it. (Unlikely)

But if its true.. then they have given us a small opportunity.
Their stack (assuming it's pikes & MI and not workers)can only move 1 tile. They cannot reach Bilbao in time.

The turn movements are :

GoW: We use the MZ plan, change our offensive, and move east.
RP: They can follow, but cant get there.
GoW: We take Bilbao, and it razes...but we get the road network (assuming they dont raze it)
RP: They can move forward/back/or stay still.
GoW: We get to hit the stack first.

Bilbao should be easy to take .. so I think we risk sending Sir Unorthodox off for an easy kill against the horseman. (GS got a GL with their first elite attack ... so why shouldn't we ?)

Opinions ?

	16-07-2003 15:54									#4
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Contact GS, and ask them if they are in or not.

We should tell them...

If they join .. the war will be swift, and minimal losses for all three sides.
This will ensure ND, GoW, & GS have the three largest armies of the world.
We can take Lego on, and defeat them.

If they choose not to join, it is unlikely ND & GoW will escape unhurt. We will not be able to provide as much support (if any) if an attack on Lego is agreed upon.
We will have to rebuild our empire...not go on another offensive.

It is in their best interest to help us win quickly, so we can turn our attentions immediately onto Lego.

Regs

	16-07-2003 16:20									#5
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There is a three-way chat scheduled for Thursday to discuss that.

GS wants land on Bob to help, though. How much is not said yet...


Me want Blood! Kill Horsie!!! Fix My Name damnit!!!!

	16-07-2003 18:19									#6
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Master Zen and myself had this idea:

-first, take out the mountain pike. This might cause a few casualties, though
-If the stack is there, leave about 3 riders on the mountain, if not, move 'em all on top.
-Shift all unmountained riders (exept for maybe Unorthodox hitting the horse) to Bilbao.
-Attack.

Guys, I just thought of something; that shot could have been a 'before' shot; before the stack was moved. It could be on the mountain, in Toledo, on the road to Bilbao, or non-existant now.

	16-07-2003 19:01									#7
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Yep - I thought of that too.

But if that stack is on the mountain .. then that is the best news for us.

No Roads ... therefore No cats
We can choose to take them out.
Or bypass them immediately, and take a free shot at Bilbao. (My preference)

If we leave three riders on that mountain...and they have 3 MI in that stack.
Then our three riders will either be dead on our next turn... or hurt bad.

We need to hit them first.

The Bilbao route sounds a lot safer.

	16-07-2003 19:28									#8
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I agree that Bilbao is the safer aproach.

I doubt the accuracy of the screen however. There is no reason not to have a road there. Pillaging now would have been premature...

I say move East, kill the horsie, pass the save, have Vox investigate Bilbao after RP's turn. We must also consider them parking several MI's outside of towns to retake them after our turns.

	16-07-2003 20:58									#9
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They do not have a road there, as is shown in the screen from Vox.

also, remember Riders have defence 3, same as pikes.

	16-07-2003 21:14									#10
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Yes, they do....

That pike has a hefty defense there on that mountain, though.

Haven't seen the screen from Vox yet, so didn't know. No road? Great, Bilbao will fall.

If the stack is there, we send horses to be injured or worse upon the pike only to face counter attack while on the mountain. If the stack is NOT there, we will not have enough to take Toledo until the injured or worse are healed and replaced.

With some lucky retreats we will not lose anyone, true, but they will be injured good enough, and what then have they really done?

	16-07-2003 21:43									#11
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Why are we taking Bibao? Would it not be more effective to assault their larger cities first to take out the production centers?

And of course pillage all improvements to decrease their production. The lack of pillaging was the key to Vox's failure in my opinion. I think that since we have the initiative we should pillage as much of Roleplay's improvements as possible to weaken their ability to feed their war machine before committing to their annexation.

	17-07-2003 02:01									#12
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Sorry, I guess no one uploaded the pic...



Ghengis, I would rather take Bilbao then lose our riders taking Toledo

So opinions, should we attack that pike on the mountain, and see whats on the other side? If there's nothing, I think we attack Toledo.

	17-07-2003 06:10									#13
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Toledo has ONE more unit than Bilbao, assuming they only have one unit in Bilbao. We would rather lose our Riders razing a size 1 city that has 1+ Pikeman than taking a size 6 city with two Pikemen?

Obviously I don't think the same way the rest of you do.....

Every successful military campaign I can think of hinged on bypassing the front and capturing/neutralizing the heart of the enemy. I don't see what the tactical advantage is to losing all of our Riders squabling over size 1 cities when we could march in and capture/raze a size 6 city that is mass producing units.

But as I said in the previous post, before we commit to taking their cities we should pillage the improved tiles surrounding them with our 3 movement Riders. Even when our units die, and they will die, we have done permanent damage to their war production system.

This is not a battle between our troops and their troops. This war is to the death and will last quite awhile. Every unit we have currently sent will die and most of the units they currently have will die. The winner will be the side that can outproduce and maneuver a continuing supply of units. We are in THEIR territory where we can destroy their production system which they would then have to rebuild. They have no units in our land to destroy our production system leaving it continually improving.

This is the mistake Vox made. They simply marched into GS and waited for targets when they should have been pillaging GS's tiles. Because of this error, GS was eventually able to regain the edge by outproducing them.

Roleplay has the advantage of being able to produce reinforcements in the battlefield while we have to ship them across Bob. We need to capitalize on this opportunity to destroy their infrastructure while we can.

Which would do more damage to our nation, Roleplay taking Port Isolation(Bilbao) or Roleplay taking Dreadnaoughtica(Toledo)? I don't think Bilbao is producing 8 shields a turn and has a barracks to produce veteran units.


I don't understand why none of you can see this.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 17-07-2003 at 06:18

	17-07-2003 07:13									#14
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I think why Vox lost the war, was because they allowed GS to hit them first.

Everytime Vox moved off the mountain to pillage. Their units got killed.

We have to hit first.

By putting all of our riders on that mountain just to kill 1 pike, we allow RP to hit our riders first with any MI they have in that stack.

On our turn..we use what healthy riders we have ledt to kill what ? The pikes and MI that are left in that stack.

If we lucky..we may kill the lot. But I doubt we will have more than 1-2 riders left. And they will be picked off pretty quickly.

Then we wait x turns for replacements from GoW central ?


By taking Bilbao, Our riders survive, and if RP is stupid enough, they may leave the road network up and/or move their stack towards us.
We use their roads to attack their stack first.

IMO

	17-07-2003 08:36									#15
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Ghengis, what if that stack is truly there, and trying to attack Toledo would be suicide? Is it better to attack and defeat a lesser city than committ suicide on a larger city? I think so.

	17-07-2003 18:02									#16
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We should be able to see the stack if it is not in the city. If it isn't visible we run past Toledo, cut the roads and take Madrid or Pamplona.

Bilbao isn't important to us OR Roleplay.

	17-07-2003 18:26									#17
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GF - Which direction are you proposing our stack moves ?

Just kill the pike, (hopefully with our first rider) and decide then ?
Or they all pile on the mountain ?

IMO, the worst thing we could do is pile on the mountain, if that stack includes 5 MI.

	17-07-2003 18:49									#18
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If they attack us the best place to be is on the mountain where we get the maximum defense bonus.

We gain nothing by taking Bibao other than delaying our advance into Roleplay, losing units to accomplish nothing, and giving Roleplay time to build and move more troops into defensible postions.

	17-07-2003 18:51									#19
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Why allow them to attack at all?

	17-07-2003 18:56									#20
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We can of course... still get there.

It will be just 2 turns later, and bilbao will be destroyed.


I am considering the idea of killing the pike, and then making a decision as to where the rest of the stack should follow. But I am not 100% convinced just yet.

{edit} - As per Unortho .. we need to attack first.

	18-07-2003 08:20									#21
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OK - I quickly loaded uop the save before going to work.

The pic we saw was a before shot.
RP moved their entire stack onto the mountain.

This gives us the first strike, if we want to take it.

IMO, it is worth trying our luck and takie out this stack.

I recommend...
Each rider in turn, attacks the stack. After the attack, the rider "w" waits...(do not end its turn.)

After each rider has had its attack, then we must decide on the following

1. the stack was completely destroyed
- pile everyone on the mountain
2. the stack was hardly hurt
- our riders move to a safe distance to heal.
3. the stack was severly damaged, and we have plenty of healthy riders
- Fortify everyone, and brace for the counter offensive.

Point 3 is the tricky one.... what offensive RP has left vs what we have left is unknown at this stage.

Regs

	18-07-2003 08:22									#22
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PS .. Biblao can be destoyed by the Riders in those galleys.

	18-07-2003 08:57									#23
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well... the turns been played already, by MasterZen and I while poly was down.

Turn Report

I can't access the turn thread whilst playing.. polys down. Some orders might not be correctly played; I'm doing the best I can.

-Offer of 18 gold from ND accepted (to make embassy with them)
-Made an embassy with ND for 37g.
-Sent ND an ROP, accepted.
-Offer of RP for paying nothing for chivalry rejected. (duh?)
-Vox Engineering for 115 gold accepted (35g + 80 for pic)

-Now researching Invention, at 16 turns with -11gpt. This will change with our GA (next turn we will likely trigger it).

-Zenophobia production switched to worker.
-Macao finishes settler, starts on Pikeman.

-Macao settler moves NW-NW-W.
-Shantung settler group moves NW, to found city next turn.
-Settler from Port Isolation moves NW.

-Moses mines.
-Tat worker moves NE-NE.

-New task force, Task Force Reinforcement created. Consists of XXX Sir Hackalot and XXI Sir Bob Minor. Are in Macao waiting for more riders currently.
-AFT is opposed by 8 units on mountain. We have to go through Bilbao. 5 of them move E; and 5 move N-E-E. They are both in striking range and it might confuse Roleplay more.
-AFB galleys move S and drop units off SW. There is a warrior on original drop-off position. Galleys move E-SE from there.

-IInd Old Ironsides moves E-N-NE.

	18-07-2003 09:00									#24
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Front before moves:


Image from ND embassy: