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Frank Johnson
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Houston, TX
Jan 1970
time: 23:13
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Just be aware of the insanely difficult situation you have all put me in.
#1 One group runs around accusing another group of cheating. When they can't prove the direct cheating, they relentlessly pound the grey area of the rules demanding swift and deadly actions against there opponents for things such as not saying the map was continents or islands.
#2 Another group intensly denies any wrong doing, while dropping one contradiction after another, and admitting to possibly minor violations of the rules, onlying giving the first group more to fire at them, while demanding I ban the first group for flaming them "unwarrentedly".
First realize, every breech of the rules cannot led to the same punishment. Some actions are the results of game bugs, and leave no trail of evidense, providing relativly small advantages to players. These violations are difficult to impossible to prove, and the mere discussion of these types of "cheats" tends to be more destrcutive to the game and the community than the "cheats" themselves. If you wonder what I'm talking about take clicking the black map to get contient data, or incremental buying as an example. Both considered illegal by some, one reconized by gameleague, the other not, both near impossible to track and prove. It is my personal judgment that I, as the tribes adminstrator, would rather turn my back on these minor infrigments than hastfully destroy one of the few active tribes, and futhermore scoff at such claims as not knowing the random map settings, when you don't ask them, is cheating.
However, some forms of cheating are dead wrong. Creating and viewing maps before and inbetween games is cheating. Unaccepted modifcations of the rules text is cheating. Use of any outside utility to affect the outcome of the game is cheating. All these forms of cheating and others warrent the banning of those invovled and possibly the removal of the entire tribe, they also have a place to be brought up in the forum,...however....
I become really upset when tribes engauge in flame wars over the first type of grey area cheating I mentioned before that I can do nothing to prove and nothing fair to prevent.
I must have the best interests of the community at heart. And so here's what I say.
You game is meaningless anyway, so I'll take no action to gratify either side. Stop interepting my rules as you wish, as you can clearly see from the standings, there was no territory to gain on my GameLeague Tribes Pyramid in your match, there are currently no Hegemon spots for you to gain, and no you cant have the spot currently held by Divine/Europa guess what they are still there, the game could fall through and no one advance, so your game is meaningless, I won't take a stance on a tribe game that techincally falls outside the offical rules of my tribes league, espically one that threatens to cause this much trouble.
So go ahead, play your meaningless, unoffical, game again. I won't worry about it for a single second more. God knows there are other more important matters within tribes I could have adress in the last few days instead of playing damage control on the boards. And don't make me call Mark, actually some discrimnating 3rd party bans wouldn't really bother me a bit at this point in quite a few cases.
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The A-Team
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Warren Michigan
Jan 2001
time: 05:13
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Well if you are going to start taking points away for clicking around with the mouse in the darkness, start with my 2000 because I do it in every game and then you can move on to tribe games as everone does it there. That for one, should be completely legal as it is 100% undetectable.
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Kaak
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I'm not sure why this is considered a cheat...
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EvilProphet
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HAHAHHAHAHA!!! I think I got my post deleted for speaking out against gameleague.
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SlowwHand
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If so, only because of never anything positive any more.
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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
http://www.geocities.com/boann7/
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Zylka
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You went and removed that thread because of the admitted cheating in it???
Listen Frank. I'm going to rationalize this whole situation for you, outside of tribes - regarding the ladder: You have in the #1 spot on the ladder an individual who has come back to gameleague countless times after being banned. He has become better; more subtle at cheating, and is now undetectable EXCEPT for his blatantly foul record. Everyone knows this, including you*.
Now, for some reason you can't just ban this individual without evidence of map reading; which is essentially impossible to come up with. Fortuanately enough, the individual proves himself guilty of a lesser charge (1.2). Quite a minor charge indeed, one you would not normally impose, but nevertheless it's against the rules. What do you do? You nail the suspect on the lesser charge. Throw the book at him so he indirectly pays for the larger crime.
This shouldn't be too hard to understand, as it happens in the real world quite often. Say someone rightly suspected of dealing can not be charged due to lack of evidence. Yet that person is eventually caught with a tiny amount of substance x on them, they're arrested on possesion and given the harshest sentence possible on such a charge - it at least gets the job done.
*Perhaps I'm assuming too much on your behalf, though. One answer would easily clear that up. Can you HONESTLY tell me you believe that a player who came out of nowhere a month ago, who immediately associates with Sean (as was the case with hidden horror), and who holds a 41-5 record isn't a cheater? If the answer is yes, I'll be dissapointed with your stupidity. If it's no, then why aren't you doing anything about it? Answer that question, honestly.
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Zylka
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Frank you didn't answer the question. Read carefully this time, and please respond.
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Bergman
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Sweden
May 1999
time: 05:13
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the most strange thing is that those guys doesnt seem to blame u for cheating.... or?
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SlowwHand
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I don't like wasting hours on the Kujas in the world.
------------------
"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
http://www.geocities.com/boann7/
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowwHand (edited March 25, 2001).]</font>
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Zylka
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Cave, the problem here is that you don't seem to understand any of the posts that follow.
Franks post states the worthlessness of the TRIBE match as an excuse not to act on grey area cheating. Yet he completely avoids any reference or solution to ladder cheating, and dances around it hoping a non committal tribe anouncement will shut things up. I then say "fair enough", and CLEARLY call attention to the LADDER situation, asking a very simple question:
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Zylka on 03-23-2001 09:31 PM</font>
Can you HONESTLY tell me you believe that a player who came out of nowhere a month ago, who immediately associates with Sean (as was the case with hidden horror), and who holds a 41-5 record isn't a cheater? If the answer is yes, I'll be dissapointed with your stupidity. If it's no, then why aren't you doing anything about it? Answer that question, honestly.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
... and I still await an answer. Perhaps you'd like to share your views on the situation as well, Cave? Yes or no will suffice, thanks.
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Bergman
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Sweden
May 1999
time: 05:13
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Of course if someone comes from no where, hes been here before, but that doesnt make him a cheater whenever he was a cheater or not!! Lets say that if he did cheat in the past but not anymore, would u forgive him for that? i dont think so. Not strange if he uses another name then. Second if hes a former cheater and still cheats would he use the same name then, the answer is NO and the answer is also that there has to be some proves before u can tell that hes cheating or not, do u guy have any single prove at all? i havent read all the post so plz tell me do u have any proves?
third he can come from nowhere but probably he's not coming from nowhere.
I dont care the slightest about someones record, i belive eyes could have the same record if not better if he joined the league. im not covering someones ass here or something like that, i just want some goddamn proves.
i have played this guy 4-5 times now and i cant see how hes cheating. I think this guy is really good! ill probably be hanged for this, cus the public oppinion is clear "hang him". Ok lets put it like this too, i cant say that he hasnt cheated in any game hes ever played, but he didnt cheat when i faced him that im sure of.
cant we just stop this **** and get on with the league games, tribe games?
And if anyone comes up with any proves then lets hang him 
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The A-Team
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Warren Michigan
Jan 2001
time: 05:13
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Again, I ask, why are you so good Kuja? What do you do that is new and different? What do you do that is so much better then us? I asked this same question before and all you did was bable back. I have continously posted very indeapth strategies that were not being used by anyone else in league. To win that % of games there is something you are doing. If it is legal, then you shoud be proud of it and reveal it to clear up your reputation.
And if your idea of the two greatest player are Markusf and eyes you are sorrly mistaken. Eyes just really sucks, he cant win without cheating.
And after beating Kaak so often, you would think your opinion of him might drop.
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EvilProphet
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"Eyes just really sucks, he cant win without cheating."
And your basis for that one was? You've been reduced to just listing off claims and insult with out really any sort of basis or grounds. I think it's safe to say I won our little game.
"I have continously posted very indeapth strategies that were not being used by anyone else in league."
LOL Do I really need to say anything more?
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by EvilProphet (edited March 26, 2001).]</font>
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