15-07-2003 15:32									#1
	Honour or Power Suffering from ads?

With the meeting of another faction the people of the Human Hive are faced with a difficult decision. We must decide what is more important to us. Our nobility in the eyes of our peers, or the will to gain advantage over the others.

With honour other factions will believe our words, and be more likely to assist us in our goals. Promises we make will have value and can be used to make us stronger, but we are limited as our strength must be grown slowly. If we decide to do whatever it takes, we may be able conquor the land of a enemy. Betrayal can make us powerful quickly, but resistance against us will rise the stronger we become.

In the rules of war each is acceptable, each is a gamble and neither method may gain us the prize that we seek. However, this decision cannot be laid aside for a later time. If the decision is honour it must be enduring to have merit. If the decision is power, it must be planned and pursued relentlessly from the start. We stand at the crossroads and the middle way is far more rugged than either of the choices.

Your choice here will shape what we do for many years to come, so think carefully before you make your decision.

Kody

	15-07-2003 17:15									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Honor is the way true masters seek.

Although honor may be gained in combat, there are far more ways than that. Diplomacy must be our primitive, for it is the only choice we could justify to our children.

Let us teach them what life is about. But make sure we are always able to protect them against unprovoked aggression from outside!

We need to keep up good relations with most of the other factions. Our greatest chance is to get war with ONE faction and be allied to at least ONE other faction at the same time.
An honorable reputation opens up the doors for us, think of future relations with the CyCon or the Pirates.

On the other hand, we already have a bad reputation just for being the "evil" Hive. Plus, there´s no point in being honorable but defenseless.

We must be prepared for all eventualities. Having a reasonable military power and good "Ally-assault" plans hidden behind a friendly face is an option worth to be considered. Just in case...

	15-07-2003 19:12									#3
	Suffering from ads?

I absolutely agree with Comrade Micha. I think we should try our best to be hornorable. Even if we decided to end a pact, we should try announce it before we attack, in other words, no backstabbing if absolutely necessary.

On the other hand, we should not assume a pact is a permanent thing. We have the right to change it to our favor, and we should be prepared that the other faction will do the same thing. One important thing that Comrade Micha mentioned too is that no matter what strategy we decide, we should remeber to keep it inside and keep a friendly face outside. This is not to rule out sometimes coersion can be used if it deemed to be effective.

	15-07-2003 19:29									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You might want to vote....

As for your other arguments. Those are going to be the next topics we decide on when the drones reply back. What degree of trust do we give them and the nature of the pact.

Kody

	16-07-2003 05:12									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

Just bumping this thread up. Remember this poll isn't deciding what we do with the drones. It's about how we will treat other factions we have alliances with and whether we shall keep our promises.

The actual issues about the drones will be brought up when we actually get some kind of a response. Buster should be coming back in 4 days so I hear.

Kody

	16-07-2003 05:50									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Honour to Humans, Crush the AI.

	16-07-2003 10:33									#7
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Bumping this thread back to the top again.

Remember to vote.

Kody

	16-07-2003 11:37									#8
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Honor! Honor is the only way the glourious people of the Human Hive can aviod the evil, capitalistic fools who would mislead them!

Glory and HONOR for the HUMAN HIVE!

	16-07-2003 16:58									#9
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Voltaire,

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=92162

When this poll is completed, can the decision be added to our constitution.
I suggest we don't publically announce the idea. Simply try and show it in our actions. Announcing that you intend to be honourable generally makes people think the opposite.

PS: Sorry about the post in the other thread.

Kody

	17-07-2003 07:16									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Are the two mutually exclusive? Or perhaps we can be powerful while still appearing honourable? Let us not encumber ourselves with this obsolete sentimentalism. We have to be willing to be ruthless in order to win!

On the other hand, it is fun to keep our enemies on their toes

Last edited by EZRhino on 25-07-2003 at 23:23

	17-07-2003 07:53									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm asking which would be more important.

If honour, we can still become powerful. However, we won't try certain dishonourable things to gain advantage.

Kody

	17-07-2003 08:11									#12
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Morality is dead. What is Yang is without the will to power!

	17-07-2003 13:50									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

In regards to the issue of adding a policy of honour in relation to pacts the CCC has ruled that at this time such a constitutional amendment would be unnecessary.

If the People wish that it be turned into law, a bill must be submitted before the PAC. Though this, IMHO, seems premature seeing as the State has always followed the wishes of the People. And if the People deem it fit that we honour our diplomatic agreements so be it.

-Chairman Voltaire

	18-07-2003 20:40									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We need power, we just need to use our propoganda to make it look like honor....

	18-07-2003 21:54									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Good suggestion ...

	18-07-2003 22:17									#16
	Got spare money?

You have no idea how hard that is to do successfully. I personally don't want to try. If you wish Haon you can take over the job of Pravda Editor and attempt to do that.

Kody

	14-06-2004 18:03									#17
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I voted honour at the time and the vote was one ahead for honour so that's how we pursued all our diplomancy.

	14-06-2004 19:02									#18
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Wow look at the sharp devision of the poll.

* Snowflake looks back for how she voted.

Phew! I voted honor. I believe.

	17-06-2004 03:31									#19
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Ah, these were the times...

* Micha gets lost in thoughts...

	17-06-2004 15:34									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

So honour won ?

	17-06-2004 16:09									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yeah it won, but only lasted while I was running portions of the Hive.

Although we treaded hazy ground by giving away the peace infiltration information.

Also there were several difficult decisions on what was honourable and what wasn't. I had a long discussion with voltaire on whether it was honourable to make trades specifically to keep the other factions apart. You see the Hive tired to make fairly sweet trades with the peace and university so that other factions would have less reason to work together. I wasn't entirely sure if that was the right thing to do morally, although it seemed to be an effective strategy.

Honghu was supposed to handle cycon stuff (with all the moral issues attached), I let her set most of the diplomatic stance towards the cycon as long as she didn't make the big decision without hive approval (eg whether to perma-pact or not).