16-07-2003 05:22									#31
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One poor troll deserves another.

	16-07-2003 05:35									#32
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Clinton set us up the bomb.

	16-07-2003 05:37									#33
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What you say!!

	16-07-2003 05:41									#34
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move all zigs

	16-07-2003 05:43									#35
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For great justice!

	16-07-2003 05:52									#36
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Clinton set us up the bomb.

So tear the roof of the mothersucka!

FLASHLIGHT!

	16-07-2003 06:27									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc For great justice!

It's Clobberin' Time!

	16-07-2003 06:35									#38
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So that a good comparison is made:

The OECD publishes estimates of the 'structural' budget balance (i.e. that which would happen if the economy was on trend).

For the US and EU this was around -4% in the late 1980's - in the early 1990's the US figure then started to improve, reaching +1% in 2000.
The EU's figure didn't start to improve until the mid 1990's but the improvement after that was very rapid, with the structual balance reaching around -1% by the late 1990s.
Since then there has been a large deterioration in the US's structural balance (back to -4%) and a small deterioration in the EU's (to -1.5%).

	16-07-2003 06:37									#39
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Shut up.

	16-07-2003 06:39									#40
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Yeah, spam or get the hell out.

	16-07-2003 06:44									#41
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I'm warning you, I'll take it to Boutros-Boutros Gali!

Hehe, I made that name up.

	16-07-2003 07:48									#42
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I really don't think the US should be concerned about a large deficit. This deficit though not good news is manageable. The real losers in the world today are France and Germany, after their totally mismanaged economies are starting to tank completely.

	16-07-2003 08:24									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Fez The real losers in the world today are France and Germany, after their totally mismanaged economies are starting to tank completely.

@ Fez!

No they're not. Germany is the 3rd largest economy in the world, they are just being pulled down by the economy problems in the US. The debt is bad because the larger it is the higher our interest, which forces the government to raise taxes or cut spending to pay the interest, slowing the economy futher, raising the debt, making taxes go up, YOU GET THE PICTURE.

	16-07-2003 08:26									#44
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lol TCO and Drake

	16-07-2003 08:27									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Odin @ Fez! No they're not. Germany is the 3rd largest economy in the world, they are just being pulled down by the economy problems in the US.

NO! Absolutely not. Germany is being pulled down by awful socialist labor laws that you love. And an outmoded industry.

quote: The debt is bad because the larger it is the higher our interest, which forces the government to raise taxes or cut spending to pay the interest, slowing the economy futher, raising the debt, making taxes go up, YOU GET THE PICTURE.

No actually that is a false assessment. Typically one of your political belief. Deficits are not bad. Did you know deficits were much worse in the 50s and 60s than they are now? Much worse.

Commies never know anything about economics...



Most of what you say is laughable... and wrong.

	16-07-2003 10:55									#46
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According to a KRT report I ran across on the raw news wires, we will pay $156 billion in just interest this year on the $455 billion deficit we're running up.

In comparison, it apparently costs $7.6 billion to run the *entire* Environmental Protection Agency for a year. Do the math ... and imagine just what all that money being spent on paying interest on the deficit could be going towards instead if the deficit projections weren't so high.

Gatekeeper

	16-07-2003 10:58									#47
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I wonder how bad the deficit will have to get before Congress finally buckles down and reduces spending?

Wait, that's a silly question. "How cold will Hell have to get before Congress finally buckles down and reduces spending" is a much more sensible question. Pardon me.

	16-07-2003 11:04									#48
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Boris:

Tough to run a war without cutting spending and still balance a budget.

I'd love to see the Dems do that,

	16-07-2003 11:12									#49
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wow. thats a lot of billions

	16-07-2003 11:24									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Fez The real losers in the world today are France and Germany, after their totally mismanaged economies are starting to tank completely.

I wouldn't call the French and German economies mismanaged - after all they are more fundamentally sound than the US's which has only purged around half of the excesses of the 1990s (and almost all of that is in the corporate sector so the pain now has to fall on households).

Germany:
GDP per head as % of USA in 1997: 75.8%
GDP per head as % of USA in 2002: 76.2%
Unemployment rate in 1997: 5.2% above the US level
Unemployment rate in 2002: 2.8% above the US level

France:
GDP per head as % of USA in 1997: 71.6%
GDP per head as % of USA in 2002: 75.3%
Unemployment rate in 1997: 7.3% above the US level
Unemployment rate in 2002: 2.9% above the US level


To me this looks much more like a relative improvement of the French and German economies than a mismanagement relative to the US's performance.

quote: Originally posted by Fez Did you know deficits were much worse in the 50s and 60s than they are now? Much worse.

Once again Fez's political beliefs prevent him from seeing the truth.

US Budget Balance as % of GDP:
1951-60: -1.3%
1961-70: -1.2%
1971-80: -2.1%
1981-90: -4.3%
1991-00: -2.3%
2001-04*: -3.2%

* using OECD forecasts for 2003-04

Source: OECD and BEA

	16-07-2003 11:45									#51
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quote: Unemployment rate in 1997: 5.2% above the US level Unemployment rate in 1997: 2.8% above the US level

	16-07-2003 11:52									#52
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oops, cut and past error - corrected

	16-07-2003 12:26									#53
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quote: Originally posted by el freako I wouldn't call the French and German economies mismanaged - after all they are more fundamentally sound than the US's which has only purged around half of the excesses of the 1990s (and almost all of that is in the corporate sector so the pain now has to fall on households).

WTF?

quote: Germany: GDP per head as % of USA in 1997: 75.8% GDP per head as % of USA in 2002: 76.2% Unemployment rate in 1997: 5.2% above the US level Unemployment rate in 2002: 2.8% above the US level France: GDP per head as % of USA in 1997: 71.6% GDP per head as % of USA in 2002: 75.3% Unemployment rate in 1997: 7.3% above the US level Unemployment rate in 2002: 2.9% above the US level

NO!

Where did you get these wrong facts?

Germany has a unemployment rate of about 10-11% according to the economist. France has one nearing 10%.

You are a fool!

	16-07-2003 12:32									#54
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you could be more polite, fez, when arguing

	16-07-2003 12:41									#55
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quote: Hehe, I made that name up.

Wasn't he the chief of UN in the late 80's?

quote: Germany has a unemployment rate of about 10-11% according to the economist. France has one nearing 10%.

CIA Factbook 2002 :
Unemployement,
Germany: 9.8% (2002 est.)
France: 9.1 % (2002 est.)

quote: Germany: Unemployment rate in 1997: 5.2% above the US level Unemployment rate in 2002: 2.8% above the US level [..] France: Unemployment rate in 1997: 7.3% above the US level Unemployment rate in 2002: 2.9% above the US level

Unemployement,
USA: 5% (2002)

France:
9,1% - 5,0% != 2,9%
5 * 1,029 != 9,1%

Germany:
9,8% - 5,0% != 2,8%
5 * 1,028 != 9,8%

I agree with Fez

	16-07-2003 12:48									#56
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"Germany: 9.8% (2002 est.)"

That's by Germany's national standard. For comparison, use Eurostat data is it uses the ILO method like the US.

	16-07-2003 12:52									#57
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Are the differences between statistical methods so radical that they explain the 2% difference between CIA's info and el freako's typed words?

	16-07-2003 12:57									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Fez WTF?

The imbalances in the US economy are best measured by the private sector financial balance - after being in the range of 0% to 4% of GDP during 1960-1995 it plunged to -6% in 2000.
Since then it has recovered somewhat to -1.5% in 2002, almost all of this improvement has come from companies reducing borrowing - so either there needs to be another large fall in investment by companies or US households need to cut back their spending.

quote: Originally posted by Fez Where did you get these wrong facts?

If I may draw your attention to the part in my post where I said "source: OECD & BEA" - but why am I bothering, you never look at anything that contradicts your political beliefs.

quote: Originally posted by Fez Germany has a unemployment rate of about 10-11% according to the economist. France has one nearing 10%. You are a fool!

And you are a worse fool for knowing nothing about the differing methods of measuring unemployment.

For example, in Germany you are counted in the unemployment total if you work less than 28 hours a week.

If you measure unemployment using the same definition (has actively sought work in the last 4 weeks) then France's rate in 2002 was 8.7% and Germany's was 8.6% - this compares with the US's 5.8%

Of course I'm sure that you would prefer to compare apples with oranges if it furthurs your political agenda

	16-07-2003 12:58									#59
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The US economy is actually growing. Germany is not and France registered minimal growth.

I am talking about 2003.

	16-07-2003 13:02									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu Are the differences between statistical methods so radical that they explain the 2% difference between CIA's info and el freako's typed words?

CIA info,

But the answer is yes, and I see Jon has already explained. Btw, there are also big differences concerning seasonal adjustment.